Most colorful and small lepomis?

I have a 55 that I would like to keep some lepomis in. I was leaning towards some of those super colorful lepomis megalotis but don't want something that is too aggresive and too large. The l. megalotis seem to be just a little too big (I'd prefer something less than 5). How would lepomis humilis and lepomis symmetricus fare in a tank together? I am planning on a heavily planted tank. What else would work that stays under 5 inches and not too territorial?

I would also like to add some minnows, are rainbow shiners safe with smaller lepomis?

To answer the second part of your question, even with L. humilis any shiners you keep with them should be at least ~80% as long as the sunfish or they're eventually dinner. Large, fully adult rainbow shiners may work. In nature they're in different stream niches - rainbow shiners are in clear, cool flowing water while the o-spots are in deeper, often muddy slow water.

Orangespotted sunfish are the smallest true sunfish I know of, but if you're looking for a sunfish-like fish that has a maximum length of an inch to an inch and a half, then I would suggest pygmy sunfish. They are very compatible with your planted tank idea, and they're also quite pretty.
Image of a male gulf coast pygmy sunfish: http://gallery.nanfa...resize.jpg.html
This is an image of my 55 gallon pygmy sunfish tank, taken last week: http://gallery.nanfa...l size.jpg.html
Here's a video of them:

I've got something like 50 videos of them hosted on youtube. Just do a search for the username Okiimiru or the fish Elassoma gilberti and you'll find them.

Edited by EricaWieser, 20 April 2011 - 11:01 AM.

The other "little" Lepomis are the dollars (L. marginatus) and northern longears (L. peltastes). I can tell you from experience that dollars can be very territorial. I haven't kept northern longears.

Cyprinella and Lythrurus species might be a better fit than rainbow shiners. They're a little bigger and can hold their own with small sunnies when it comes to feeding time.

The other "little" Lepomis are the dollars (L. marginatus) and northern longears (L. peltastes). I can tell you from experience that dollars can be very territorial. I haven't kept northern longears.

Cyprinella and Lythrurus species might be a better fit than rainbow shiners. They're a little bigger and can hold their own with small sunnies when it comes to feeding time.

Yeah I'm already keeping some of the pygmy sunfish, I was looking for a true sunfish this time. Anybody know if northern longears are as territorial as dollars? The only downside to the orangespots is that the fry are difficult to raise.

I currently have two Northern Longears. The larger male is very territorial at times. He chases everything but the Grass Pickerel from the center of my 150. He doesn't do this all the time though.I have kept Orangespotted sunfish and Redfin Shiners together without problems.I have also kept Longear sunfish and spotfin shiner together also.

I currently have two Northern Longears. The larger male is very territorial at times. He chases everything but the Grass Pickerel from the center of my 150. He doesn't do this all the time though.I have kept Orangespotted sunfish and Redfin Shiners together without problems.I have also kept Longear sunfish and spotfin shiner together also.

I guess it's too early in the year for orange spots, no one seems to have any available.

I have 8 Northern Longears in a 55, they're something like 7-9 months old, aggression is there but nothing dangerous. Very good personalities and fun fish.

Another member wanted to see some pics of some tanks of mine. Note the betta macrostoma fry in one of the 10g tanks.

The only downside to the orangespots is that the fry are difficult to raise.

I have not heard of this. What do you mean?

Bantams and orangespotted sunfish do work very well together. I keep my brood stock of these two species together in the same tank every winter. Neither of them is overly aggressive and you can quite easily keep a large variety of shiners and other appropriately sized fish with them.

I noticed someone mentioned that orangespotted sunfish are the smallest true sunfish... Just a correction, they are the smallest Lepomis sp. but the smallest true sunfish are the three Enneacanthus sp. with the blackbanded E. chaetodon being the smallest of those and the smallest true sunfish.

As far as longears and dollars go... the larger strains, forms, subspecies, what ever you want to call them, can be kept as a group of 6 in a 55 but it works best as a sunfish only tank. The only tank mates that work well are usually catfish. Also the tank needs to be complex, by this I mean lots of hiding places in the form of rocks, wood, or plants. You can mix a variety of different similarly sized sunfish but the number of 6 fish is good to stick too. Fewer you run into a fish becoming too dominant over the rest and more fish of that size just starts to be too much for the tank to handle. Northern longears and dollars are very similar in size and personality but the N. longear does seem to be a little less aggressive. These you can keep a group of 6 of one or mix of both with a group of shiners in a 55 if they are a little more durable shiner species like Cyprinella sp. Or if it was a sunfish only tank I would probably go with 8 fish of these two. If you strictly had sunfish and had just Bantams and Orangespotted I would say 10-12 is safe for a 55 gallon tank.

Also unless you are planning to breed them don't rule out having a mixed group. I think the number of Lepomis sunfish is more important than the species. You can mix the big guys with the little guys if the numbers and complexity of the tank are right. My big 200 gallon display tank has proven this beyond a doubt. A giant green sunfish living with a beautiful little western dollar and northern longear with no trouble at all. You could quite easily mix a group of 8 of the smaller 4 in a 55... two each N. longear, dollar, bantam, orangespotted... Or 6 mid sized fish longear, green, blackspotted, redspotted, warmouth, pumpkinseed, redbreast, just avoid the two biggest ones with a tank under 75 gallons, bluegill and redear. I have them all but those two biggest ones because they are the biggest and least colorful in my opinion.

I have not heard of this. What do you mean?

Getting them to spawn in a tank is not hard, however the fry are microscopic and feeding them is very difficult. I was reading a few old threads on them and it is even likely that you would have to replicate their tank water with how it is in their environment, very muddy.

Bantams and orangespotted sunfish do work very well together. I keep my brood stock of these two species together in the same tank every winter. Neither of them is overly aggressive and you can quite easily keep a large variety of shiners and other appropriately sized fish with them.

I noticed someone mentioned that orangespotted sunfish are the smallest true sunfish... Just a correction, they are the smallest Lepomis sp. but the smallest true sunfish are the three Enneacanthus sp. with the blackbanded E. chaetodon being the smallest of those and the smallest true sunfish.

As far as longears and dollars go... the larger strains, forms, subspecies, what ever you want to call them, can be kept as a group of 6 in a 55 but it works best as a sunfish only tank. The only tank mates that work well are usually catfish. Also the tank needs to be complex, by this I mean lots of hiding places in the form of rocks, wood, or plants. You can mix a variety of different similarly sized sunfish but the number of 6 fish is good to stick too. Fewer you run into a fish becoming too dominant over the rest and more fish of that size just starts to be too much for the tank to handle. Northern longears and dollars are very similar in size and personality but the N. longear does seem to be a little less aggressive. These you can keep a group of 6 of one or mix of both with a group of shiners in a 55 if they are a little more durable shiner species like Cyprinella sp. Or if it was a sunfish only tank I would probably go with 8 fish of these two. If you strictly had sunfish and had just Bantams and Orangespotted I would say 10-12 is safe for a 55 gallon tank.

Also unless you are planning to breed them don't rule out having a mixed group. I think the number of Lepomis sunfish is more important than the species. You can mix the big guys with the little guys if the numbers and complexity of the tank are right. My big 200 gallon display tank has proven this beyond a doubt. A giant green sunfish living with a beautiful little western dollar and northern longear with no trouble at all. You could quite easily mix a group of 8 of the smaller 4 in a 55... two each N. longear, dollar, bantam, orangespotted... Or 6 mid sized fish longear, green, blackspotted, redspotted, warmouth, pumpkinseed, redbreast, just avoid the two biggest ones with a tank under 75 gallons, bluegill and redear. I have them all but those two biggest ones because they are the biggest and least colorful in my opinion.

Yeah I guess that's the problem with common names because in my opinion the only "true" sunfish are the ones in the lepomis genus, the enneacanthus genus is slightly different. I was hoping to breed the inhabitants in the 55, so I don't want to be mixing too many species. I think I'll get some l. Humilis and symmetricus and try to figure out how to raise humilis fry in a tank setting.

L. symmetricus can certainly be bred and raised in a 55 I have done so myself. You will of course need to move fry to another tank for rearing but they will certainly spawn in that size of tank. L. humilis will spawn but I have yet to ever get any fry to survive in a tank and I'm not sure anyone ever has. They like muddy or at least murky water. I have had successful spawns in a 20ft x 20ft rubber lined pond with some clay added to the water and a spotted sucker or two in the pond to keep it stirred up and in suspension. I thought maybe the first year was a fluke but it worked the second time around as well. This summer will be the third if all goes well. I have a nice breeding group healthy and ready to go and the 2 suckers are already in the pond. Sunfish will be joining them any day now when I get some time to move and acclimate them.

As far as the smallest sunfish I like to think of the family as all sunfish so E. chaetodon will always be the smallest in my thoughts, and they ad probably longears are my favorite two as aquarium fish.

Do l. Humilis spawn with thousands of eggs or do they usually have less than 500?

I do not know what an average number of eggs would be for a female orangespotted sunfish. Since I work with them in ponds I don't usually see the nests like you would in an aquarium.