Best way to move fish

I'm going to be moving in the next couple weeks from South Carolina to Washington state. I've been consolidating my tanks to make sure I have a home at the other end for everyone who will be coming. I have three questions for people who might have done this before:

1. I intend to move a number of small fish in a bucket with a sponge filter powered by a bait bucket air pump I got from a sporting goods store. These will include a couple small shiners, some swamp darters, a small eel (~4 inch) and a trio of young bluespotted sunfish. I'm thinking I'll put an inch of sand in the bottom for the eel to lower everyone's stress level. Is there a better way to do this for roughly a six day drive?

2. I'd like to bring some plants from my current tanks, including Rotalla, banana plants, a non-native Amazon sword and an unidentified native aquatic grass. I don't yet have a good plan for these. My best idea so far is to put them in a glass jar so they'll get some light. Not sure if I should add fertilizer or not (I have solid KNO3 and KH2PO4), or if that would just encourage algae. Any ideas?

3. I still have some fish I'm hoping to move to new homes. I've shipped small fish before - Elassoma zonatum, Lucania goodei and <3" Anguilla rostrata. Now I may need to ship a smallmouth bass, a redfin pickerel and a fat sleeper, all roughly 3" in length. I have 6x8" breather bags, but the fish could hardly turn around in there. What's the best thing to do with these?

I'm going to be moving in the next couple weeks from South Carolina to Washington state. I've been consolidating my tanks to make sure I have a home at the other end for everyone who will be coming. I have three questions for people who might have done this before:

1. I intend to move a number of small fish in a bucket with a sponge filter powered by a bait bucket air pump I got from a sporting goods store. These will include a couple small shiners, some swamp darters, a small eel (~4 inch) and a trio of young bluespotted sunfish. I'm thinking I'll put an inch of sand in the bottom for the eel to lower everyone's stress level. Is there a better way to do this for roughly a six day drive?

2. I'd like to bring some plants from my current tanks, including Rotalla, banana plants, a non-native Amazon sword and an unidentified native aquatic grass. I don't yet have a good plan for these. My best idea so far is to put them in a glass jar so they'll get some light. Not sure if I should add fertilizer or not (I have solid KNO3 and KH2PO4), or if that would just encourage algae. Any ideas?

3. I still have some fish I'm hoping to move to new homes. I've shipped small fish before - Elassoma zonatum, Lucania goodei and <3" Anguilla rostrata. Now I may need to ship a smallmouth bass, a redfin pickerel and a fat sleeper, all roughly 3" in length. I have 6x8" breather bags, but the fish could hardly turn around in there. What's the best thing to do with these?

I don't know about 1 or 2, but for 3 try to find someone in your area who wants them. Also, if there are any aquariums or "ecoparks" (What my area calls a medium sized building with a bunch of 210 gallon tanks filled with native fish and herps) in your area you could definatly give them a try.

I'm going to be moving in the next couple weeks from South Carolina to Washington state. I've been consolidating my tanks to make sure I have a home at the other end for everyone who will be coming. I have three questions for people who might have done this before:

1. I intend to move a number of small fish in a bucket with a sponge filter powered by a bait bucket air pump I got from a sporting goods store. These will include a couple small shiners, some swamp darters, a small eel (~4 inch) and a trio of young bluespotted sunfish. I'm thinking I'll put an inch of sand in the bottom for the eel to lower everyone's stress level. Is there a better way to do this for roughly a six day drive?

2. I'd like to bring some plants from my current tanks, including Rotalla, banana plants, a non-native Amazon sword and an unidentified native aquatic grass. I don't yet have a good plan for these. My best idea so far is to put them in a glass jar so they'll get some light. Not sure if I should add fertilizer or not (I have solid KNO3 and KH2PO4), or if that would just encourage algae. Any ideas?

3. I still have some fish I'm hoping to move to new homes. I've shipped small fish before - Elassoma zonatum, Lucania goodei and <3" Anguilla rostrata. Now I may need to ship a smallmouth bass, a redfin pickerel and a fat sleeper, all roughly 3" in length. I have 6x8" breather bags, but the fish could hardly turn around in there. What's the best thing to do with these?

I think I would use a cooler vs, a bucket. Could drill a hole in the top for your air line. The reason I'd do this is the temperature could be controlled easier with less drastic fluxuation. More surface area and more room for the fish to have there own space, reducing stress. Just my 2 cents.

I'm going to be moving in the next couple weeks from South Carolina to Washington state. I've been consolidating my tanks to make sure I have a home at the other end for everyone who will be coming. I have three questions for people who might have done this before:

1. I intend to move a number of small fish in a bucket with a sponge filter powered by a bait bucket air pump I got from a sporting goods store. These will include a couple small shiners, some swamp darters, a small eel (~4 inch) and a trio of young bluespotted sunfish. I'm thinking I'll put an inch of sand in the bottom for the eel to lower everyone's stress level. Is there a better way to do this for roughly a six day drive?

2. I'd like to bring some plants from my current tanks, including Rotalla, banana plants, a non-native Amazon sword and an unidentified native aquatic grass. I don't yet have a good plan for these. My best idea so far is to put them in a glass jar so they'll get some light. Not sure if I should add fertilizer or not (I have solid KNO3 and KH2PO4), or if that would just encourage algae. Any ideas?

3. I still have some fish I'm hoping to move to new homes. I've shipped small fish before - Elassoma zonatum, Lucania goodei and <3" Anguilla rostrata. Now I may need to ship a smallmouth bass, a redfin pickerel and a fat sleeper, all roughly 3" in length. I have 6x8" breather bags, but the fish could hardly turn around in there. What's the best thing to do with these?

I've moved fish many times in the past (twice a year for the past four years), but never with a delay of six days in between leaving and arriving. The big issue here is the six days. That's the real problem.

You have to weigh the pros and cons of feeding the fish.

If you feed them, they produce ammonia, which will effectively cause 'new tank syndrome' in the bucket/cooler and harm their gills, possible stressing and killing the fish. Then you'd have to think about how to remove the ammonia. A fast growing plant? No, because there's no outlet in your car to plug a lamp into to get the plant to grow and absorb the ammonia. A biological conversion using a filter? No, because again, no outlet means no power to run a filer. Your only option for ammonia removal is daily 100% water changes, which can stress fish out due to pH, DH, and temperature change.

If you don't feed them then that's six days without food. You don't have to worry about ammonia poisoning, but you do have to worry about the fish's health. Different fish species can go different lengths of time without food (for example, a snake eats less frequently than a dog or cat). In general, apex predators like alligators and lions can go longer without food than grazers like gazelles and goldfish. Also, young fish require more frequent feedings than old fish because they are still growing. These are all things you have to think about and weigh. How young are your bluespotted sunfish? Are they still growing? If not, then it might not be so bad for them to go six days without food.

About adding fertilizer to the plants: One the one hand, who cares if you grow algae in your little transport containers? Just remove it when you get there. On the other hand, dosing small containers is dangerous and difficult to measure without under or overdosing. I wouldn't bother with it, personally, I'd just stick the plants in with the fish. In fact, that's what I do every time I move. I cushion the fish in a big pile of plant tissue. It helps them feel more secure.

And the last issue, the one about the fish you don't know what to do with. Here are your options: put an ad up on craigslist. Buy larger breathing bags (Kordon sells them online and they are also for sale on aquabid) and ship them away after selling them on an auction site like aquabid or ebay. Donate them to your local zoo, aquarium, etc. Take them to your local fish club's meeting. Kill them. Here's the one thing you can't do: You can't release them into the local waterways. It's better that you kill the individual fish than contaminate a local waterway with whatever 'sleeper' pathogen your fish are carrying. There are bacteria and viruses that fish carry without ever showing symptoms of that your fish definitely have that would be transmitted to the waterway if you dumped your fish there. Please don't do it.

P.S. The idea of adding sand in the bucket/cooler might help their comfort level (I really doubt it. It would get shaken up and go into the water and irritate their gills), but it does absolutely nothing for the ammonia processing. The amount of beneficial bacteria living on the surface of a sedimentary layer of sand is miniscule. Do not think that that will do anything significant for your biological filter. It'd be more effective to stick your plants in there. They loooove ammonia. Plants prefer eating ammonia over nitrate. *nods*

Good luck with your move! Given your options, I would pack a container (cooler is preferable) with plants, stick the fish in there, not feed them, and hope everything works out.

Edit: Oh yes, remove any dead fish as soon as they die. This would reduce their ability to kill the fish that are still alive.

Edited by EricaWieser, 24 April 2011 - 10:31 PM.

Have you thought about starting over with your stock in Wa?

That is a long trip for the fish, but if you do it good luck.

I would suggest individual bags for each fish, bag buddies, don't feed the fish 48 hours before the trip, and store them in a styrofoam cooler.

Edited by AOmonsta, 25 April 2011 - 12:11 AM.

Oh and where in SC you live? I live in Anderson. I could take in some of the fish you decided not to take. I have multiple native tanks and ponds.

here is a link to a simple cooler type bait tank.
plus you can add old fillter media to seed your new tank setup.
use 1/2 cup of salt everday for 15 gallons of water.
and use shadkeeper.change out 1/3 of the water every day.
http://www.catfish1....-bait-tank.html
you can p/u all the parts a walmart.
you can run a powerconvert for this setup.
i would not add sand.
good luck with the move.



here is a larger setup for a truck.we have kept shad alive
for weeks in this setup in the summer months.
i put the fillter media inside in a floating basket
i used small pool noodles to float the fillter media in the basket.
http://www.catfishin...n/baittank.html

Edited by CATfishTONY, 25 April 2011 - 07:52 AM.

Have someone local hold the fish for you and mail them express once you get there.

If it were me I'd pack the fish in breather bags. Larger does not equal better in some cases, although given the nature of your move I would go for larger bags since you only have a couple of fish. You'll probably need to change water half way or so I'd guess, just fill extra bags and carry it with you. I would not feed the fish under any circumstances, 6 days is not a big deal to go without food except for fairly young fish (< 3-4 months). I have moved a few times and have always used breather bags, and that was for 50-200 fish or so with never more than one or two deaths. Unless you have a really good cooler they almost always leak a lot of water (assuming you just add water directly into the cooler).

Have attached a picture of the setup I used the first time. Bags are two deep in jar boxes, with a layer of fish spread over the top of the boxes. My little cardboard baffles didn't really do much, but it didn't seem to matter any. Wine boxes can be used too, although their depth makes them a pain and you can't just cut them in half as the baffles don't work then (you'd have to cut off the top and bottom quarter I guess). One often has to cut the box too in order to get them to fit the cooler I was using. I can send more pics and details if you are serious.

Cheers
Peter

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Edited by AussiePeter, 25 April 2011 - 08:11 AM.

You'll probably need to change water half way or so I'd guess, just fill extra bags and carry it with you.

I agree with everything AussiePeter said except the part about changing the water. Without food in them, the fish won't make waste and I don't see any reason to change the water in the breathing bags.
But apart from that, I totally agree with the breathing bag setup, them being separated by cardboard and packed in a cooler. That's how I've been moving my fish the last couple years, in breathing bags like that stuffed with plants so they're comfortable. I've also moved them in large storage bins like this: http://3.bp.blogspot...Storage+Bin.jpg but it sloshes a lot and the breathing bags are better, lower stress.

Edited by EricaWieser, 25 April 2011 - 10:22 AM.

I like breathing bags for shipping fish, but for MOVING (or traveling more than 2 days) I'd go with your original plan of filter-in-bucket or cooler. Not only will it consume ammonia in transit, but more importantly it will keep your nitrifying bacteria alive so you'll still have a functional biofilter on arrival. For comfort/shelter (for eel) a clump of javamoss and/or waterlogged tree leaves would work, rather than sand.

Also - fish DO produce ammonia waste even after not being fed for a couple days.

Edited by gerald, 25 April 2011 - 10:50 AM.

Also - fish DO produce ammonia waste even after not being fed for a couple days.

I should have added that I always add stuff to the water that should neutralize ammonia. But that was also why I suggested changing their water mid trip. I also would not feed the fish for at least two days before bagging them either (or 3 if they are a bit larger). Anyway, Gerald's point is an important one to keep in mind. Usually my moves have been over a couple of days, not 6, but I have as many as 5-10 fish to a bag too. One fish, in a larger breather bag offers a lot of dilution though.

You could always go out and grab a fish, drop it in a larger bag and sit it on your counter top for a week and observe whether it shows bad signs of stress (which if it did then I'd end the experiment).

I also don't tend to worry too much about filter issues too. In freshwater systems it doesn't take that long for a filter to take off. I'm sure though if you dropped some filter material in a breather bag that it would help get stuff running quicker at your destination.

Cheers
Peter

Regarding the plants - just put them in a glass jar or clear bags. No need to fertilize. Just make sure you plant them in a timely fashion when you get there, and don't put the jar/bags in full sun, or they might cook!

The bucket will contain a fully developed filter that has been in service for a year or more. It can run on batteries and should keep ammonia at zero, although nitrate may build up some. I think this is better than the breather bag plan. Even without feeding there will be some ammonia released, and that's a long time to be exposed to even low concentrations.

No fish are getting released. I'm sure I can find homes for all except the bluegill, it's just a matter of shipping fish larger than I'm used to.

Does anyone have experience with plants kept in the dark for that length of time? I'd much prefer to keep the plants with the fish, since I agree that would minimize stress for the fish. I'm skeptical though that the plants would survive, since I don't really have any good way of providing light to the bucket and would prefer not to in any case to further minimize fish stress.

I like the idea of a cooler. The battery air pump is permanently installed in a 5-gallon bucket lid, but that's probably not an insurmountable problem. Thanks for the tip.

I don't think I'd put the plants in total darkness for 6 days. They will probably etiolate.

That being said, if the fish are in total darkness for 6 days, they likely wouldn't see the plants anyways...

Peter's word is gold. You should follow his lead.

I'd much prefer to keep the plants with the fish, since I agree that would minimize stress for the fish.

I wouldn't put stuff in a container that is likely to be sloshing around. I've seen plenty of folks do it, but inevitably that stuff will rub up against your fish and cause abrasions I think. Never put pebbles or small rocks either. I have seen others crush fish that way and kill them.

Cheers
Peter

Ok, that's a good point.

In case anyone looks this up for later reference, this turned out better than expected, but not perfectly.

I ended up using a 5 gallon bucket with an established sponge filter running off a bait bucket air pump. I got the pump from Dick's Sporting Goods for $8-9. It's built into a fitted bucket lid and runs off two D batteries. These were supposed to last 14 hours, but ended up running more than 48 hours before requiring replacement. I'm not sure if that's the pump running more efficiently than rated or if Duracell is just that great.

I started with an 8" eel (Anguilla rostrata), six swamp darters (Etheostoma fusiforme), three golden topminnows (Fundulus chrysotus), one hogchoker (Trinectes maculatus), five bluespotted sunfish (Enneacanthus gloriosus), three small (2.5") shiners and a similarly sized chub, and ten melanistic Gambusia. Some snails and grass shrimp were also included with minimal expectation of survival, but one can hope. This was much overcrowded and I expected to change the water no less than every other day, if not daily. This proved difficult to do.

All these fish had been living together without incident in a 55 gallon tank for some time, but during the trip their food intake was greatly curtailed (feeding lightly about every 3 days instead of all they could eat daily) which caused some casualties. The eel ate a lot of smaller fish that tend to sleep on the bottom, including five of six darters and nine of ten Gambusia, as well as all but one of the shrimp. In the tank he had only ever eaten Elassoma. I also lost one of the sunfish to a wounded tail that became infected. I believe this was also due to an eel bite.

Of the snails I lost two of three Nerites which appear to have starved. All others (pond snails, ramshorns and tropical MTS) made it.

The biggest problem apart from not adequately separating a predator was suddenly switching food. I had been feeding a variety of frozen foods occasionally supplemented by live insects, but it was impossible to take frozen food in the car, so I brought flakes and pellets. Several of the fish probably didn't eat any of this.

I moved the plants seaprately in a one gallon clear plastic jug, together with one marmorkrebs I thought was sexually immature (she came into berry during the trip), a couple adult snails of each species I had, and a whole bunch of very small snails which weren't readily separable from the plants.

The jug spent most of the trip on the passenger seat in my lap, trying to get sun. When we stopped I tried to leave it in sun whenever possible. Although some plants lost leaves, especially the Rotalla, I think this was due to abrasion rather than stress. All survived, but I think I've lost the lone Val after replanting. I never had good luck with those anyway. The sword and water lily were definitely showing signs of stress in thinning, more translucent leaves, and some shedding. All appear to have recovered after replanting.

Glad to hear everything went well.