Several months ago I bought a used 125-gallon tank with a nice pine cabinet stand. I am lobbying to put it into the living room this weekend. Mr. Handsome is suddenly concerned about whether the floor joists can handle the weight. I told him I'd look into it and sister the joists if necessary. House is ca 1922, crawl space on brick piers. I crawled under it to see which way the joists ran, but of course now I forget. I can easily go under and measure lenghts, widths, etc. (On a side note, it seems that the hardwood floor is nailed directly into the joists without a subfloor. No wonder the floor is cold in the winter! But I digress.)
Does anyone know a source that outlines the calculations I would need to do to determine if the joists are adequate? Years ago I did similar calculations to design decks in landscape architecture school, but those notes are lost up in the attic somewhere...
supporting a 125-gallon tank
Started by
Guest_nativeplanter_*
, May 27 2011 12:18 PM
18 replies to this topic
#2
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 27 May 2011 - 12:45 PM
I will look something up for you, but consider that a typical refrigerator weighs close to 300 pounds... empty... and they are so narrow that they would often sit on one joist or at best two... your aquarium is long and, if you set it the right way, will span multiple (maybe 4?)...Several months ago I bought a used 125-gallon tank with a nice pine cabinet stand. I am lobbying to put it into the living room this weekend. Mr. Handsome is suddenly concerned about whether the floor joists can handle the weight. I told him I'd look into it and sister the joists if necessary. House is ca 1922, crawl space on brick piers. I crawled under it to see which way the joists ran, but of course now I forget. I can easily go under and measure lenghts, widths, etc. (On a side note, it seems that the hardwood floor is nailed directly into the joists without a subfloor. No wonder the floor is cold in the winter! But I digress.)
Does anyone know a source that outlines the calculations I would need to do to determine if the joists are adequate? Years ago I did similar calculations to design decks in landscape architecture school, but those notes are lost up in the attic somewhere...
I did have a problem when I first set my 75 up in my new house... I didnt pay attention to joist direction and sat the aquarium longways on a single joist... no real problems, but I could feel the floor flex ans see the water bounce in the tank whenever anyone walked (or ran, we had teenagers then) by it... so I moved it to another room with less foot traffic and and set it so that it spanned multiple joists...
Distributed load is the trick... I also have a king sized water bed in an upstairs bedroom...
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#3
Guest_gerald_*
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Posted 27 May 2011 - 04:28 PM
If its anything like my 1904 house, there are two layers of hardwood floorboards; the lower layer is perpendicular to the joists and the upper layer is parallel to the joists. So if your inside floorboards and joists run the same direction, you have two layers (at least). Also those 2 x 8 joists are probably REAL 2 x 8's (16 sq.in cross section), not 1.5 x 7.5 (11 sq.in cross section) like post-WW2 ones. Big difference in strength. Check the brick piers too; the old mortar is crumbling away on mine.
#4
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Posted 28 May 2011 - 09:02 AM
OK, so I did some checking last night - the joists run perpendicular to where the sofa is currently so I am lobbying to put it there. That's also really the only one large wall spot we have. The joists actually measure 9.5 x 2.5 inches. And there does seem to be a pretty beefy subfloor in that location. So it looks like there shouldn't be any problems! (Mortar on the piers is OK; had them checked by a structural engineer 1.8 years ago after the neighborhood flooded.)
I am rather excited. I haven't had a tank set up in 2.5 years. I have been asked to wait until after the in-laws leave on Wednesday of next week, but the fish from the convention should then be getting their new home! Until then... changing water frequently in the cooler...
I am rather excited. I haven't had a tank set up in 2.5 years. I have been asked to wait until after the in-laws leave on Wednesday of next week, but the fish from the convention should then be getting their new home! Until then... changing water frequently in the cooler...
#5
Guest_EricaWieser_*
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Posted 28 May 2011 - 04:31 PM
Wow, I can only imagine how excited you must be.I am rather excited. I haven't had a tank set up in 2.5 years.
Good for you Some thoughts before you get the tank set up:
Are you interested in installing an automatic water changer? It's easy to do and would save you some time. Here's a DIY design for under $50: http://www.aquaticpl...nge-system.html
What sort of filter are you using? If I had a chance to do it all over again, I'd go with a fluidized bed filter. Here is a link to a fluidized bed filter rated for tanks up to 300 gallons for $53.99: http://www.aquariumg...5174_a_7cRL0077
Fluidized bed filters work by pushing water through sand so fast that the sand floats, making the sand move around continuously. Because the sand is constantly moving instead of sitting all compacted together, every side of the sand is exposed to water and the beneficial bacteria has a very large surface area available to colonize. Here's a video:
#6
Guest_nativeplanter_*
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Posted 28 May 2011 - 06:09 PM
The tank came with two Cascade 1500 canisters, so that should be more than plenty. Unfortunately, our water has chloramines, so I don't think the automatic water changer would work. But the tank will be right next to the window above the garden, so at least siphoning out will be easy. Now, if you can find plans for something that hooks into the hose (coming in through same window) and automatically treats the water for me on the way to the tank, we might be on to something! Otherwise, I think it'll probably be hose-to-huge-rubbermaid-bucket, treat, then powerhead or sump pump to the tank.
#7
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Posted 28 May 2011 - 08:49 PM
I was hesistant to try this for a long time, but after initial experiments on Gambusia I became comfortable with the procedure and have treated my water in the tank for more than two years with no apparent ill effects. Just siphon to desired level, add enough Prime to treat the entire tank volume, stick hose in tank and fill. The mixing and reaction are both very fast so the fish are never exposed to a dangerous chloramine concentration. Even fish that like to swim into the current, sticking their noses right into the hose, are unharmed over a long period of time. I do remember how nervous I was to try it though.
I have thought about a huge rubbermaid tub with a float valve for automatic top-off, but I just know it wouldn't be long before it ended up full of critters.
I have thought about a huge rubbermaid tub with a float valve for automatic top-off, but I just know it wouldn't be long before it ended up full of critters.
#8
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Posted 28 May 2011 - 11:43 PM
I am a BIG believer in FB. Low cost, zero maintenance, and man, do they get the job done. These filters don't get much attention in the FW world, and saltwater enthusiasts would call them nitrate factories, but they work really well for me.
#9
Guest_smilingfrog_*
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Posted 28 May 2011 - 11:58 PM
Now, if you can find plans for something that hooks into the hose (coming in through same window) and automatically treats the water for me on the way to the tank, we might be on to something! Otherwise, I think it'll probably be hose-to-huge-rubbermaid-bucket, treat, then powerhead or sump pump to the tank.
Wondering if one of those lawn fertilizer mixing attachments that hook onto the hose would work for this?
#10
Guest_EricaWieser_*
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Posted 29 May 2011 - 02:22 AM
If you drip the water into a tray or box of activated carbon before it goes into the tank, the activated carbon will remove the chloramine.Unfortunately, our water has chloramines, so I don't think the automatic water changer would work.
Here's a source that says that activated carbon removes chloramine: http://www.thefilter...ine_filters.htm
The downside is you'd have to replace the activated carbon every now and then. There wouldn't be a clear indicator to tell you when to change it, like a color change or a light going off. You'd have to calculate carbon lifetime based upon your flow rate, the surface area of the carbon you puchase (should say on the box), and the amount of activated carbon you put in. On the plus side, once that's calculated a single time, you're done. And I could help you with it, if you tell me your flow rate and the surface area of the carbon you choose.
By the way, if you buy activated carbon in bulk it's way less expensive than the individual filter pouch portions sold in pet stores.
Edited by EricaWieser, 29 May 2011 - 02:24 AM.
#11
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 29 May 2011 - 07:27 AM
Agree, I use this process as well and have never seen any ill effects. In a purchase of a bunch of odds and ends, I got a very long (30 ft or so) python. I use this for both water removal and refill (to a sink in the laundry room down the hall). And yes, many of the riffle fish do come out to play in the water as it comes out of the python (darters, topminnows, shiners, chubs, and even the rosyface chubs which I consider to be a little more delicate than some of the others). I also do this with what few sunfish I have in the basement with no ill effects.I was hesistant to try this for a long time, but after initial experiments on Gambusia I became comfortable with the procedure and have treated my water in the tank for more than two years with no apparent ill effects. Just siphon to desired level, add enough Prime to treat the entire tank volume, stick hose in tank and fill. The mixing and reaction are both very fast so the fish are never exposed to a dangerous chloramine concentration. Even fish that like to swim into the current, sticking their noses right into the hose, are unharmed over a long period of time. I do remember how nervous I was to try it though.
I have thought about a huge rubbermaid tub with a float valve for automatic top-off, but I just know it wouldn't be long before it ended up full of critters.
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#12
Guest_nativeplanter_*
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Posted 29 May 2011 - 07:45 AM
Agree, I use this process as well and have never seen any ill effects. In a purchase of a bunch of odds and ends, I got a very long (30 ft or so) python. I use this for both water removal and refill (to a sink in the laundry room down the hall). And yes, many of the riffle fish do come out to play in the water as it comes out of the python (darters, topminnows, shiners, chubs, and even the rosyface chubs which I consider to be a little more delicate than some of the others). I also do this with what few sunfish I have in the basement with no ill effects.
This does seem like the simplest way to do it. And you know me - I'm all about keeping it simple! Thanks!
#13
Guest_gzeiger_*
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Posted 29 May 2011 - 09:36 AM
The only downsides to it are that you use a little more Prime (I tended to do 80% water changes anyway so didn't worry about it, and Prime is pretty cheap really), and if you're careless the hose can slip out of the tank when you turn the water on (but filling a tub first doesn't really solve that problem).
On the original topic, how do you go about figuring out the load capacity of a joist? It sounds like you just decided that three would be way more than enough. I ask because I've been wondering how to figure out the structural requirements for a plywood tank of around 5000 gallons.
On the original topic, how do you go about figuring out the load capacity of a joist? It sounds like you just decided that three would be way more than enough. I ask because I've been wondering how to figure out the structural requirements for a plywood tank of around 5000 gallons.
#14
Guest_nativeplanter_*
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Posted 29 May 2011 - 02:28 PM
On the original topic, how do you go about figuring out the load capacity of a joist? It sounds like you just decided that three would be way more than enough. I ask because I've been wondering how to figure out the structural requirements for a plywood tank of around 5000 gallons.
I just decided that with 9.5 x 2.5 joists running perpendicular to the tank, there should be more than enough support. For yours, though, wow - that's a lot of weight. In all honesty I think I might pay for a couple hours time from a structural engineer. Sounds expensive, but probably a lot less than fixing a sagging floor! We found a structural engineer in the yellow pages when we needed our pier foundation assessed after a flood. Cost us $300 and he spent about an hour here. I just don't think I'd risk it with that much weight, and I don't think the math is really a DIY job for 5000 gallons!
#15
Guest_gzeiger_*
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Posted 29 May 2011 - 02:49 PM
To clarify, I'm thinking that will go on a concrete slab such as a basement or garage. I'm thinking about the construction of the tank itself and how much support is needed for the sides and bottom.
#16
Guest_AussiePeter_*
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Posted 29 May 2011 - 09:47 PM
Read this if you are game. 
http://www.cichlid-f...rium_weight.php
It will tell you more than you never wanted to know.
Cheers
Peter
http://www.cichlid-f...rium_weight.php
It will tell you more than you never wanted to know.
Cheers
Peter
#17
Guest_gzeiger_*
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Posted 30 May 2011 - 09:03 AM
Thanks Peter.
Edited by gzeiger, 30 May 2011 - 09:15 AM.
#18
Guest_gerald_*
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Posted 30 May 2011 - 11:22 AM
Apart from the issue of how fast chloramine neutralizer works is the issue of heat, depending on your water source. Water from my cold faucet comes out mid to high 80s from July to Sep, so I need to cool it down for a day in a barrel anyway before using it for cool water species.
Two 4x4's slightly longer than your stand (one beneath the front legs and one beneath the back legs, perp to joists) will help distribute the weight more evnly across multiple joists.
Two 4x4's slightly longer than your stand (one beneath the front legs and one beneath the back legs, perp to joists) will help distribute the weight more evnly across multiple joists.
Agree, I use this process as well and have never seen any ill effects. In a purchase of a bunch of odds and ends, I got a very long (30 ft or so) python. I use this for both water removal and refill (to a sink in the laundry room down the hall). And yes, many of the riffle fish do come out to play in the water as it comes out of the python (darters, topminnows, shiners, chubs, and even the rosyface chubs which I consider to be a little more delicate than some of the others). I also do this with what few sunfish I have in the basement with no ill effects.
#19
Guest_gzeiger_*
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Posted 30 May 2011 - 01:27 PM
Wood stands usually have pretty good weight distribution. I can't imagine putting a 125 gallon tank on a crappy wrought iron stand with just four corner posts. Good advice if you were to do that though.
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