They seemed fine this morning,but when I got back for lunch about 5 hours later all but a few were dead,many already looking quite decomposed.
I'm at a loss as to why.Other shiners in nearby tanks are fine and the fish did not show any signs of disease this morning.Nothing was sprayed around the area nor any new substance introduced into the tank.A complete mystery to me.
My rainbow shiners suddenly all died
Started by
Guest_rainbowchrome_*
, Jun 08 2011 03:18 PM
20 replies to this topic
#2
Guest_fundulus_*
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Posted 08 June 2011 - 04:31 PM
I've had them do that in aquariums, especially soon after spawning. I think they tend to have a very finite life expectancy.
#3
Guest_rainbowchrome_*
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Posted 08 June 2011 - 05:59 PM
I've had them do that in aquariums, especially soon after spawning. I think they tend to have a very finite life expectancy.
Other years I've had them live on for quite awhile after losing their color.I had recently changed some of their water because they were acting like there may be a nitrate buildup,then they looked better for two days then died massively during the day today.
Other species of shiners in nearby tanks seem unaffected but rainbows were the only species I had in that tank.
I'm going to flush the whole tank and filter with diluted clorox,dry out the tank,and later put other fish in there.
#4
Guest_Elijah_*
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Posted 08 June 2011 - 06:58 PM
Make sure their is no spawn first. If they died after spawning because their life cycle was complete you might have a whole bunch of fry in a week. That would be super cool!Other years I've had them live on for quite awhile after losing their color.I had recently changed some of their water because they were acting like there may be a nitrate buildup,then they looked better for two days then died massively during the day today.
Other species of shiners in nearby tanks seem unaffected but rainbows were the only species I had in that tank.
I'm going to flush the whole tank and filter with diluted clorox,dry out the tank,and later put other fish in there.
#5
Guest_gerald_*
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Posted 08 June 2011 - 09:09 PM
Despite their color they are not sockeye salmon, and do not die abruptly after spawning. Mine kept spawning for about five years, and when they died it was after a gradual aging process similar to what you see in most fish.
If it wasnt a water quality or electrocution issue, it was probably a fast-acting disease, maybe Flexibacter. The rapid decay makes me suspicious.
If it wasnt a water quality or electrocution issue, it was probably a fast-acting disease, maybe Flexibacter. The rapid decay makes me suspicious.
Edited by gerald, 08 June 2011 - 09:10 PM.
#6
Guest_fundulus_*
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Posted 08 June 2011 - 09:57 PM
You're so right.Despite their color they are not sockeye salmon
#7
Guest_rainbowchrome_*
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Posted 09 June 2011 - 06:28 AM
What likely would've introduced a fast acting disease.I didn't add any more fish to the tank at a later time,nor any other organisms that I know of.They did fine for about 2 months.Can the disease take that long to show up?
#8
Guest_jblaylock_*
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Posted 09 June 2011 - 06:51 AM
What likely would've introduced a fast acting disease.I didn't add any more fish to the tank at a later time,nor any other organisms that I know of.They did fine for about 2 months.Can the disease take that long to show up?
Sometimes fish will carry disease but it wont effect them as they are otherwise healthy. However, when something else causes the fish to stress (water quality, transportation, etc...) this will allow the disease to take over and kill the fish quickly.
#9
littlen
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Posted 09 June 2011 - 08:25 AM
This is going to be quite the contradictory post but, I also agree that they just don't "up and die" after spawing......although I had 20 fish in a 45 gallon tank that all died within 48 hours of spawing. (I suspect other factors were in play). Nevertheless I ended up with 100+ fry that I discussed in another thread.
Hopefully you haven't broken down your tank yet. You may be surprised.
Hopefully you haven't broken down your tank yet. You may be surprised.
Edited by littlen, 09 June 2011 - 08:26 AM.
Nick L.
#10
Guest_fundulus_*
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Posted 09 June 2011 - 10:36 AM
No, they don't just up and die after spawning as a rule, but I've seen it happen and it especially hits the brightest males which raises the question are they poisoned by the immunosuppressive effects of elevated levels of testosterones like 11-KT. I've also seen the same pattern with large, alpha male scarlet shiners which I know for a fact have extremely elevated levels of 11-KT (the paper is on review). Just sayin'...
#11
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Posted 09 June 2011 - 01:24 PM
fascinating ... puts a whole new perspective on "terminal-phase males." So i guess that's at least part of the story to explain the nasty infections often seen on male chubs, suckers and other fish that fight during spawning season.
No, they don't just up and die after spawning as a rule, but I've seen it happen and it especially hits the brightest males which raises the question are they poisoned by the immunosuppressive effects of elevated levels of testosterones like 11-KT. I've also seen the same pattern with large, alpha male scarlet shiners which I know for a fact have extremely elevated levels of 11-KT (the paper is on review). Just sayin'...
#12
Guest_fundulus_*
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Posted 09 June 2011 - 04:05 PM
Yes, and it's a reasonable explanation at least in part for the sudden disappearance of large alpha male cyprinids come mid to late summer. Completely proving it's another story, of course...
#13
Guest_Skipjack_*
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Posted 09 June 2011 - 05:10 PM
Heightened activity, and possible lower than optimal dissolved oxygen could also be a contributing factor.
#14
Guest_rainbowchrome_*
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Posted 09 June 2011 - 05:32 PM
Heightened activity, and possible lower than optimal dissolved oxygen could also be a contributing factor.
It's definitely some infection.I put my hand in the tank water today and could feel some kind of invisible something "scratching" my skin like it was trying to bore into me.
I put enough clorox in the water so I could easily smell it and am letting the filter run thru tomorrow afternoon,then empty and rince the tank and let it dry.Hopefully that will kill whatever infection this is.
#15
Guest_Skipjack_*
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Posted 09 June 2011 - 07:08 PM
That is kind of scary, sure you are not imagining it? Maybe stray voltage?It's definitely some infection.I put my hand in the tank water today and could feel some kind of invisible something "scratching" my skin like it was trying to bore into me.
I put enough clorox in the water so I could easily smell it and am letting the filter run thru tomorrow afternoon,then empty and rince the tank and let it dry.Hopefully that will kill whatever infection this is.
#16
Guest_Elijah_*
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Posted 09 June 2011 - 07:35 PM
Stray voltage would be my guess if you can feel it.
#17
Guest_rainbowchrome_*
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Posted 09 June 2011 - 08:56 PM
Stray voltage would be my guess if you can feel it.
Not voltage.Happens with filters,ect disconnected.I feel it just after I remove my hands from the tank,not while it's in the water.It's like a few little critters trying to dig into me.It stops after I wash my hands.I'll leave the clorox water in the tank tonight then clean it all out tomorrow,dry the tank in the sun,and hope that ends the problem.
#18
Guest_Kanus_*
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Posted 11 June 2011 - 06:48 PM
Cut off a finger and mail it to the nearest microbiologist. This sounds pretty interesting! Sorry about the fish though.
#19
Guest_EricaWieser_*
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Posted 11 June 2011 - 07:17 PM
A comment on the voltage thing, that can cause itching, yes. The voltage tingle can happen when a tool is turned off but still plugged in. That is possible.Not voltage.Happens with filters,ect disconnected.I feel it just after I remove my hands from the tank,not while it's in the water.It's like a few little critters trying to dig into me.It stops after I wash my hands.I'll leave the clorox water in the tank tonight then clean it all out tomorrow,dry the tank in the sun,and hope that ends the problem.
You can also get itching with chemical irritants, too. I was recently dosing some water with Tetra brand's Algae Control product, and I dosed a particular batch of water an unknown but liberal dosage that was very strong (heh heh) and later on happened to stick my hand in it, and it started tingling. So you can get that itchy feeling from the beginnings of a chemical burn, too.
Do you have a microscope or a friend with a microscope? It would be neat to swab your hand and tank and see what's going on.
Personally, I might not have bleached it. I would have sealed the tank and waited and watched it. With parasites and other creepy crawlies, it's hard to know exactly what you're dealing with without either examining it under the microscope or letting it progress to its final phases. For example, if I have a fish that's skinny and acting funny, I stick it in its own tank. Then when the camallanus worm sticks its little nematode head out, the culprit becomes known. So yeah, I wouldn't have bleached the tank. I would have watched and waited for worms or something wiggly to appear. *nods* Who knows, maybe you'll find dead pathogen bodies as you're cleaning out the tank.
Oh, and a last word to be reassuring. The only pathogen of fish that is known to be able to infect humans is Mycobacterium marinum, fish tuberculosis. It causes joint inflammation in people. So whatever got your fish and got on your hands probably can't hurt you.
Edited by EricaWieser, 11 June 2011 - 07:21 PM.
#20
Guest_gzeiger_*
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Posted 11 June 2011 - 09:50 PM
Some snails can be vectors for parasites that can infect humans, such as schistosomiasis. Unlikely, but has been documented. Wouldn't have killed the fish though.
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