Collecting, Exhibiting, and Releasing Wildlife in Virginia

Collecting, Exhibiting, and Releasing Wildlife in Virginia

http://www.dgif.virg...mits/guide.asp

Release of wildlife

Wildlife kept in temporary exhibits must be released within four weeks of collection at the point of capture. All wildlife kept in temporary exhibits should be released by September 15 to allow the animal time to prepare for hibernation. Amphibians and reptiles collected in different locations should be kept separate to prevent the spread of disease. Animals that show any sign of disease or ill health must not be released.

I wonder when this was written?

I know we have discussed this before at great length, but is there an official NANFA position on releasing wild fish?

I personally think the position should be: If you still have it when you are done collecting at a particular place, you are responsible for it until it dies.

This was written for those people that collect non-fish animals, such as snakes, turtles, lizards, and such. They *should* write something in that relates to fish. The person in charge of these permits is not easy to get a hold of which I've tried a few times via email and phone. I've always talked to someone else in the department. But yes, you are correct, when it comes to fish: whatever you leave with you keep.

Regarding that page, it says you cannot import, export, possess, etc... wildlife

Under that, it says you can keep nongame fish for private use.

I called and spoke to a sceratary and she said that 'I' couldn't take any nongame fish because I'm a nonresident and I couldn't transport wildlife across state lines. However, I can't find that provision in their law. Anyone have more knowledge on this subject, Drew?

http://www.dgif.virg...rmits/guide.asp

Interesting. I read through the relevant sections of the Virginia Administrative Code - it makes no differentiation between resident and non-resident. 4-VAC-360-10 seems to be the "otherwise specifically permitted by law or regulation" for the keeping of non-game fish for private use. However, it doesn't mention import/export at all. I can try to call someone I know to see if I can get better info.

Interesting. I read through the relevant sections of the Virginia Administrative Code - it makes no differentiation between resident and non-resident. 4-VAC-360-10 seems to be the "otherwise specifically permitted by law or regulation" for the keeping of non-game fish for private use. However, it doesn't mention import/export at all. I can try to call someone I know to see if I can get better info.

Here's how I read it

4 VAC 15-30-10: Unlawful to ... export any wild animal unless otherwise specifically permitted by law or regulation...

4 VAC 15-360-10: Lawful to collect and possess live for private use** only, and not for sale, ... no more than 20 individuals of any non-listed species of aquatic invertebrate and nongame fish

This does NOT say resident or non resident.

I don't think that secretary knew what exactly I was talking about. She first told me I'd need an educational permit and a dipnet license.

It does not say resident or non-resident because it applies to the person in possession of a fishing license (the permitted by law or regulation part). I don't think you worded your question properly or you were speaking to the wrong person.

It does not say resident or non-resident because it applies to the person in possession of a fishing license (the permitted by law or regulation part). I don't think you worded your question properly or you were speaking to the wrong person.

Matt,

There's a very good chance that I worded it wrong and I was speaking to the wrong person.

If that law applies to the person in possession of a fishing license, does that imply that I can legally take nongame fish from Virginia to Kentucky for personal use?

We have this discussion alot, especially prior to you joining the forum. Asking us does not give you a legally binding answer, whether correct or not. Do you have a non-resident fishing license? Because that is where the regulation allowing for the possession of non-game fish for home use is directed. I personally have a VA non-resident license so I can go out with Drew. I have only temporarily possessed fish and used collecting equipment and have yet to take anything across the border. However, it says nothing about the exportation of fish out of the state of Virginia. Which is why asking the people who make and enforce the regulations is best.

We have this discussion alot, especially prior to you joining the forum. Asking us does not give you a legally binding answer, whether correct or not. Do you have a non-resident fishing license? Because that is where the regulation allowing for the possession of non-game fish for home use is directed. I personally have a VA non-resident license so I can go out with Drew. I have only temporarily possessed fish and used collecting equipment and have yet to take anything across the border. However, it says nothing about the exportation of fish out of the state of Virginia. Which is why asking the people who make and enforce the regulations is best.

I realize that NANFA members do not make/enforce laws. I guess the reason people ask here is because you guys have been going at this for a while.

I do not have a non-resident license, but I would obtain one before collecting, unless a dipnet license is all I need.

Here's the link to the non-game fishing regulations, I'm sure it's already posted here.
http://www.dgif.virg...ons/nongame.asp

It again says unlawful to ... export any wild animal unless otherwise specifically permitted by law or regulation...
However, under this it gives the chart for possession limits for personal use. On this page it doesn't specifically state it is lawful for collection for home use, but it does give possession limts, outlining what the other page said. This page actually ups the possession of minnows and chubs to 50.

I'm going to call the office over the Wise county area tomorrow. What type of person should I speak to on this, ie... game wardon, manager, etc...?


So confusing...why can't they just say here's what you can/can't do.

Again in another thread. "Dip net" in Atlantic states means a net that is used to dip anadromous fishes typically an umblella net or dip net frame on a lever. That's why in the Virginia regs it talks about shads and herrings. It is not the same thing as a cummins dip net or perfect dipnet, etc. You are also misinterpreting the regulations. It does not say you can possess 50 minnows and chub for home use. It says you can possess minnows and chubs, salamanders, crayfish, and hellgrammites in aggregate up to 50 for fish bait. In the aggregate means you can have 30 minnows and 20 crayfish in your possession and are using it as fishing bait. Private/personal use is explicitly defined as in the home, non-scientific or educational reasons and is the 20 individuals/species limit. Exceptions to that number are also listed (i.e. bullheads).

A county office isn't going to get you anywhere. You need to speak with a head regional biologist, and the few I know, like Drew said, are incredibly hard to get a hold of. Honestly, Virginia has some of the best defined regulations in my opinion. They are one of the few states that recognizes and differentiates home use of non-game fishes and graciously affords a reasonable take.

So I called and spoke with a biologist today. He advised that once a non-resident buys a non-resident fishing license, he/she is then considered no different from a resident. He said that He couldn't see what would be wrong with going into VA and collect non-listed non-game fish and take back to KY for personal aquarium use.

He did, however, say that for my benefit I should call the local law enforcement division and talk to them. When I called them, the woman who answered the phone insisited that I speak to her because she 'works with the people in law enforcement'. She told me I needed to call 'such and such' about a permit. Even after I advised her that the VA law states that a permit is only required for scientific use, she said I needed to work that out with the lady in permits. I'm still waiting for that return call.

I Think...That all state regulations are well meant and thought out, to protect anything and everything imagineable, and rightfully so, HOWEVER, what happens is ,
even though WE ALL mean well and try to be as compliant as we can. after a while of beating your head against well meaning uneducated secretarys that a lot
of the time speak out of turn, and run us around so much that SOME may very well tire of this and go get their fish. I Vote that someone in a position of some importance in MAYBE an organization such as our own. TRY to get some definitive rules that apply explicitly to our situation as hobbyist and hopefully clear the air and allow us to enjoy our hobby as the law abiding citizens we all want to be. IN ADVANCE im sorry if this opinion makes any one mad it was not my intent to do so.

Well said Jim.

To go with what you said. I was telling my wife about getting the run around. She said bluntly, the law doesn't say you can't...nobodies going to ask anyways, just go get your fish. She right. I've read that law 100 times now and had it confirmed by a state biologist. I'm just going to get my fish.

Josh,
The next step to keep in mind while you do go getting your fish while following the law is to be really, really, REALLY nice to people who stop you and ask questions. Try not to get defensive right away - just nicely say that you are collecting minnows for your aquarium... you enjoy looking at our native fish and natural habitats... you are careful not to take any bass/trout/crappie/game fish etc... Most people respond positively to that approach and add how much they like nature themselves. Remember that even the people who should know the rules (like game wardens) often don't (as you've found out while making calls), so if it gets to it you can say "yeah... I looked into it really carefully and called DGIF... the regulation says this..." and have a copy in your glove box.

I Think...That all state regulations are well meant and thought out, to protect anything and everything imagineable, and rightfully so, HOWEVER, what happens is ,
even though WE ALL mean well and try to be as compliant as we can. after a while of beating your head against well meaning uneducated secretarys that a lot
of the time speak out of turn, and run us around so much that SOME may very well tire of this and go get their fish. I Vote that someone in a position of some importance in MAYBE an organization such as our own. TRY to get some definitive rules that apply explicitly to our situation as hobbyist and hopefully clear the air and allow us to enjoy our hobby as the law abiding citizens we all want to be. IN ADVANCE im sorry if this opinion makes any one mad it was not my intent to do so.

Sorry ran out of time to edit but i did want to add this>>And just so im not one of those who talk and never do, i have sent a letter to the DNR of indiana, By way of the Govenors office which sometimes helps me to get an answer. I can live within the law as long as i understand what that is, but i cant give up somthing as enjoyable as this hobby based on what the janitor told the receptionist at the DNR. If i get an answer for the state of Indiana at least i will post it or better yet pass it on to the governing body of this organization to see if they deem it approiate for posting.

Edited by jimv8673, 20 November 2008 - 05:03 PM.

Josh,

I talk with the head biologist of that region regularly and the "permit lady" every now and then. You do have to talk to the "conservation police" in regards to law enforcement as the VDGIF doesn't enforce the regulations.

(I swear I responded to this last night, but I guess not)

The gentleman you talked to earlier is correct in that once you obtain a non-resident fishing permit you are treated the same as a resident.

Also, let me know when you want to come to VA and I can possibly meet you and show you where to get some fish (at least try).

Josh,

I talk with the head biologist of that region regularly and the "permit lady" every now and then. You do have to talk to the "conservation police" in regards to law enforcement as the VDGIF doesn't enforce the regulations.

(I swear I responded to this last night, but I guess not)

The gentleman you talked to earlier is correct in that once you obtain a non-resident fishing permit you are treated the same as a resident.

Also, let me know when you want to come to VA and I can possibly meet you and show you where to get some fish (at least try).

Drew, I'm actually going to 'poke around' the day after thanksgiving. Nothing serious, just looking around. 40 ft from my grandmothers front door is Mud Lick Creek that drains into Callahan Creek then into Powell River. She lives right outside Appalachia VA.

Next summer I'm going to plan a whole day trip to that area, sampling in small creeks and the Powell River itself.


Nativeplanter, you're right. A lot of game wardens don't know the law and they see something they think is illegal and will question it. I carry with me a binder that I have printed copies of laws from KY, VA, and TN along with listing of endangered/threatened fish. You're right though, the proper approach is not to insult them and get defensive.


Jim, for being proactive No seriously, that's good to do that in advance for everyone else. Maybe I'll come to IN next summer for some collecting.

Drew, I'm actually going to 'poke around' the day after thanksgiving. Nothing serious, just looking around. 40 ft from my grandmothers front door is Mud Lick Creek that drains into Callahan Creek then into Powell River. She lives right outside Appalachia VA.

Next summer I'm going to plan a whole day trip to that area, sampling in small creeks and the Powell River itself.


Nativeplanter, you're right. A lot of game wardens don't know the law and they see something they think is illegal and will question it. I carry with me a binder that I have printed copies of laws from KY, VA, and TN along with listing of endangered/threatened fish. You're right though, the proper approach is not to insult them and get defensive.


Jim, for being proactive No seriously, that's good to do that in advance for everyone else. Maybe I'll come to IN next summer for some collecting.

I was very polite, and explained as nicely as i could that i wasnt a PHD, but i did intend to take some fish and for what purpose, and how i intended to do it and asked for a simple explanation of what laws and licenses applied, and that i didnt want nor could i understand a dictionary about it. Just a simple YES you can take darters in a hand held net, or seine or NO you cant...etc. I pay my taxes, i served my country in the war. and i stop at all signs that say stop. I also intend to take a few fish if i want them and have no time for gobbdle-de-goop If thats unlawful then tell me in a language a hill jack can understand, ill take it under consideration

Drew, I'm actually going to 'poke around' the day after thanksgiving. Nothing serious, just looking around. 40 ft from my grandmothers front door is Mud Lick Creek that drains into Callahan Creek then into Powell River. She lives right outside Appalachia VA.

Next summer I'm going to plan a whole day trip to that area, sampling in small creeks and the Powell River itself.

If you are putting a seine or dipnet in the Powell be prepared to be stopped. There are explicit reaches and locations in the Clinch and to a lesser extent the Powell River where you cannot wade. Say what you want about game wardens, but in that area, they know their non-game fish and they will question what you are doing, fishing license or scientific permit.

Seperate from this but in the big picture of the subject. Alot of times regulation confusion is self inflicted because of over thinking and dancing on egg shells when it is not warranted. When you want an answer, call the right person and take time to figure out who is that right person beforehand. You won't waste your precious time, which will save you frustration, let alone the person on the other end of the phone. I'll get off my "from the other side of the fence" soap box now.