Once you see a Logperch you will Know. They are a unique, distinct Darter. It is likely a Greenfin but still a possibility of being a Redline to my eye. Redlines have a pointy head, Greenfins not so much, especially the bull males.
Western North Carolina
Started by
Guest_Creekwalker_*
, Jul 14 2011 08:58 PM
132 replies to this topic
#23
Guest_gerald_*
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Posted 25 July 2011 - 01:09 PM
Agree with Casper and Todd on the Rver chub, N. hogsucker, and Greenfin darter. Your rosyside dace looks like and "should" be (based on range) the Little TN Rosyside or Smoky dace, an undescribed species. However, common rosysides have been spread around into the Litle TN's range, so it's hard to be sure.
#24
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Posted 25 July 2011 - 01:40 PM
Part of what makes me 99% sure that's a greenfin is the description of the behavior. Redlines are almost never evasive, greenfins are almost always 
I didn't catch that you were looking for ID's on the others, but I'll just be part of the chorus at this point. And as Gerald pointed out, that may be a smoky dace.
Good stuff!
Todd
I didn't catch that you were looking for ID's on the others, but I'll just be part of the chorus at this point. And as Gerald pointed out, that may be a smoky dace.
Good stuff!
Todd
#25
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Posted 25 July 2011 - 02:04 PM
You know, though i agree with that general statement... sometimes Redlines can be very evasive and at times Greenfins can be very friendly. I have noted that oddity with many species and cannot account for it. Another example is Stonerollers, generally they always flee as a herd if you approach them but several times in the last couple years i have had them all in my facemask and quite content with my presense. I am not covered with algae either, well maybe my t-shirt is. Part of the fun and mystery.
If he who walks the creek will say where he was exactly it would help. No need to be so discreet... lots of nice NC waters and these are NOT listed species.
If he who walks the creek will say where he was exactly it would help. No need to be so discreet... lots of nice NC waters and these are NOT listed species.
#26
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Posted 25 July 2011 - 04:27 PM
The name of the stream is *********** Creek. 
I appreciate you guys trying to solve this with me. My computer is acting really slow since I got back. I should be able to post a video of this little critter soon on youtube. That may help.
I appreciate you guys trying to solve this with me. My computer is acting really slow since I got back. I should be able to post a video of this little critter soon on youtube. That may help.
Edited by Drew, 06 May 2012 - 09:06 PM.
removed creek name
#27
Guest_gerald_*
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Posted 25 July 2011 - 04:31 PM
All of Graham County NC drains into the Little Tenn, so the suite of possible species is basically the same throughout the county.
Santeetlah Cr runs into Santeetlah Lake, then into Cheoah R and then into Little Tenn R just before it flows across the NC/TN border. NC-DWQ's fish records from the Little Tenn include Etheo. chlorobranchium, vulneratum, gutselli and zonale. No redlines reported. E.chlorobranchium was found at many sites; vulneratum at only two sites, neither of which is in Graham Co.
Santeetlah Cr runs into Santeetlah Lake, then into Cheoah R and then into Little Tenn R just before it flows across the NC/TN border. NC-DWQ's fish records from the Little Tenn include Etheo. chlorobranchium, vulneratum, gutselli and zonale. No redlines reported. E.chlorobranchium was found at many sites; vulneratum at only two sites, neither of which is in Graham Co.
Edited by gerald, 25 July 2011 - 04:42 PM.
#32
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Posted 25 July 2011 - 10:06 PM
And here is a video of some river chub (?).
Can someone tell me what the behavior is at the end of the clip where the male (?) appears to be slapping his tail on the rock?
Is he fertilizing eggs on the rock?
Can someone tell me what the behavior is at the end of the clip where the male (?) appears to be slapping his tail on the rock?
Is he fertilizing eggs on the rock?
Edited by Creekwalker, 25 July 2011 - 10:06 PM.
#33
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Posted 26 July 2011 - 06:03 AM
Pretty awesome! The fish in question is a stoneroller grazing algae off the rock.
As the Snorkelmeister (Casper) said, let the fish come to you, they will eventually investigate you if you give them time. It's the rookie exuberance mistake, I guess, also known as "The Blair Fish Project" We all do it to start because you're so excited about it, and film just extenuates the effect.
One trick, with minnows in particular, is to mount your feet in some rocks or bank and look downstream. You'll see the real party is at your downstream end!
Great stuff!
Todd
As the Snorkelmeister (Casper) said, let the fish come to you, they will eventually investigate you if you give them time. It's the rookie exuberance mistake, I guess, also known as "The Blair Fish Project"
We all do it to start because you're so excited about it, and film just extenuates the effect. One trick, with minnows in particular, is to mount your feet in some rocks or bank and look downstream. You'll see the real party is at your downstream end!
Great stuff!
Todd
#35
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Posted 26 July 2011 - 08:34 AM
Central Stonerollers. The slick algae you feel on the smooth rocks is what they are shaving off with their sharp lower lip. In fact if you will study the mottled pattern on these smooth rocks you can often see the horseshoey mark left by the herds of grazing stonys.
looks like the cameras video is working pretty good for you. Try to lock yourself in, keep the camera steady. Move smoothly. Sometimes we will find a good spot and plant the camera and walk away. I like building my own amplitheatre and letting all the darters come to me. I design the set and they perform.
Its fun to see you starting to scratch the surface, well just below the surface. That is what got us all excited when we first put our masks on.
looks like the cameras video is working pretty good for you. Try to lock yourself in, keep the camera steady. Move smoothly. Sometimes we will find a good spot and plant the camera and walk away. I like building my own amplitheatre and letting all the darters come to me. I design the set and they perform.
Its fun to see you starting to scratch the surface, well just below the surface. That is what got us all excited when we first put our masks on.
#36
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Posted 26 July 2011 - 10:34 AM
I think a big part of the problem in my videos is that the current was pretty strong and I was at the surface floating, so I was getting moved quite a bit. I need to develop some techniques for staying put like you said, Casper, and waiting for stuff.
The greenfin darter video was a prime example. I was at the surface in a deep pool so the current was pushing me and I couldn't plant my feet. Thus the game of chase we played.
Oh, and I forgot to mention managing the 5 & 7 year olds topside. I think I need some "daddy time" to chill out in the creeks.
The greenfin darter video was a prime example. I was at the surface in a deep pool so the current was pushing me and I couldn't plant my feet. Thus the game of chase we played.
Oh, and I forgot to mention managing the 5 & 7 year olds topside. I think I need some "daddy time" to chill out in the creeks.
Edited by Creekwalker, 26 July 2011 - 10:35 AM.
#37
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Posted 29 July 2011 - 11:25 AM
Hmmm... I post a response to this Wed but it apparently didn't go through.
Yes, floating is the hardest photography and filming you can do. Best to find the places where you can plant yourself and work from there. Many times I will plant my feet on rocks or logs or the bank and tether in the flow facing downstream. You'll see a lot this way. Maybe not greenfins (they're work no matter how you slice it), but most other things this works very well. The fish are curious and they'll come to see you. You can scratch at the bottom too, they will come investigate that.
And yes, it's difficult enough to get a good shot of the fish on its own, much less watching the kids.... Although I think it's absolutely awesome that you're doing this with your kids, so I don't want that to end But every now and then, some Daddy alone time would be a good thing!
Todd
Yes, floating is the hardest photography and filming you can do. Best to find the places where you can plant yourself and work from there. Many times I will plant my feet on rocks or logs or the bank and tether in the flow facing downstream. You'll see a lot this way. Maybe not greenfins (they're work no matter how you slice it), but most other things this works very well. The fish are curious and they'll come to see you. You can scratch at the bottom too, they will come investigate that.
And yes, it's difficult enough to get a good shot of the fish on its own, much less watching the kids.... Although I think it's absolutely awesome that you're doing this with your kids, so I don't want that to end
But every now and then, some Daddy alone time would be a good thing!Todd
#38
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Posted 14 August 2011 - 03:01 PM
I just got back from another trip to the same area.
I tried snorkeling in the North River which is a tributary of the Tellico. The visibility was low compare to Santeetlah Creek. I suspect that they have a lot of run-off from the forest service road that runs along it. Not enough veg. buffer?
I stayed out of the Tellico. I was put off by the amount of sediment on the bottom and the development at Green Cove. Was worried about E.coli with all the horses and septic systems.
Had another great day in Santeetlah creek aside form almost knocking my teeth out body surfing rapids.
I got some better videos that I will post on youtube later on. Here are some screen captures from my videos. Two of the pics are of the darter that I keep seeing. Maybe these pics will help with the i.d.? I did stare one down face to face in very shallow water. There was a blue fluorescent stripe above each eye about 1/4" long running north south. Eyes are orange/red.
Also there is a shiner I see a lot. It has a yellow iridescent stripe down the side that changes color depending on the angle. The mouth is a bit red. Help with I.d. would be great. I assumed it was a saffron shiner, but not sure.
Thanks!
I tried snorkeling in the North River which is a tributary of the Tellico. The visibility was low compare to Santeetlah Creek. I suspect that they have a lot of run-off from the forest service road that runs along it. Not enough veg. buffer?
I stayed out of the Tellico. I was put off by the amount of sediment on the bottom and the development at Green Cove. Was worried about E.coli with all the horses and septic systems.
Had another great day in Santeetlah creek aside form almost knocking my teeth out body surfing rapids.
I got some better videos that I will post on youtube later on. Here are some screen captures from my videos. Two of the pics are of the darter that I keep seeing. Maybe these pics will help with the i.d.? I did stare one down face to face in very shallow water. There was a blue fluorescent stripe above each eye about 1/4" long running north south. Eyes are orange/red.
Also there is a shiner I see a lot. It has a yellow iridescent stripe down the side that changes color depending on the angle. The mouth is a bit red. Help with I.d. would be great. I assumed it was a saffron shiner, but not sure.
Thanks!
Edited by Creekwalker, 14 August 2011 - 03:01 PM.
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