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Is this a pumkinseed?

Started by Guest_Usil_* , Sep 25 2011 12:21 PM

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21 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_Usil_*

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 12:21 PM

The fish in the background - is that a pumkinseed? I have been experimenting with the selection of fish in my 55 gallon to establish better tank dynamics and removed those that completely cower and hide all day. I have currently the dominant Texas Longear, a Bluegill that comes out defiantly every day a second longear that mostly hides and this 'pumkinseed' (I think) that at first was timid and did not eat and now is snarfing everything down with the others at feeding time. In addition, he is sneeky and getting pretty brave. I think he is ready to make his move.

I know he is a little hard to see but he is getting braver and coming out for a few challenges each day.

Posted Image

Usil

Edited by Usil, 25 September 2011 - 12:27 PM.

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#2 Guest_nativecajun_*

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 12:27 PM

The fish in the background - is that a pumkinseed? I have been experimenting with the selection of fish in my 55 gallon. I have been working on tank dynamics and removed those that completely cower and hide all day. I have currently the dominant Texas Longear, a Bluegill that comes out defiantly every day a second longear that mostly hides and this 'pumkinseed' (I think) that at first was timid and did nto eat and now is snarfing everything down with the others at feeding time. In addition, he is sneeky and getting pretty brave. I think he is ready to make his move.

I know he is a little hard to see but he is getting braver and coming out for a few challenges each day.

Usil

Looks like a possibility but it is very dark back there. But that would be my first guess. Where did you catch it that would give the guys more to go by and a lighter photo maybe.

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#3 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 12:31 PM

What do you mean by "removed"? I hope you're not releasing them back into the wild.

Edited by EricaWieser, 25 September 2011 - 12:31 PM.

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#4 Guest_Usil_*

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 12:32 PM

He was caught in a damed creek in a park area. So far I have caught longear, blugill, warmouth, this pumkinseed and I think a red brested sunfish at this location. I will try to get a better picture of him when he comes out. So far he watches the longear and sneaks out when he turns his back. Every once in a while he makes a direct challenge.

Usil

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#5 Guest_Usil_*

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 12:33 PM

No trip back to homeland for them. I know the rules and the reasons why.

Usil

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#6 Guest_UncleWillie_*

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 02:55 PM

It may be a redear (L. microlophus). I'm not convinced it is a pumpkinseed without a better picture.

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#7 Guest_Usil_*

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 03:03 PM

Will try to get a better picture.

Usil

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#8 Guest_Usil_*

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 03:32 PM

Will these help ID?

Posted Image

Usil

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#9 Guest_UncleWillie_*

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 04:49 PM

Excellent picture. Now this fish is bothering me. Redears don't have the blue marking on the face. It's body marking looks like it could be either pumpkinseed of redear, but that mouth looks mighty big in that second picture (ehem.. green sunfish). So I have no idea how to respond from here. Hopefully someone will come along and point out something obvious and give you a real ID. For now I will just remain confused.

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#10 Guest_Usil_*

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 04:51 PM

Interesting. Now I really want to know what it is. In any event, it is in my tank, has an intersting personality and good looking.

Usil

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#11 Guest_fundulus_*

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 05:53 PM

Willie's right, much of the coloration like the body ground color is p-seed but the head and mouth are wrong. We might have to say Lepomis and leave it at that.

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#12 Guest_Usil_*

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 06:30 PM

Maybe a hybrid? to a Green? or Longear?

I have caught Green here too. I forgot to add it to the list. Lots of species living together.

Usil

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#13 Guest_FirstChAoS_*

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 07:19 PM

Willie's right, much of the coloration like the body ground color is p-seed but the head and mouth are wrong. We might have to say Lepomis and leave it at that.

According to wikipedia pumpkinseed mouth size varies with the size of the snails they eat. Does that waterbody have big snails?

A red eared shellcracker is not always a red ear shellcracker.

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#14 Guest_rjmtx_*

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 07:42 PM

If you caught it in TX, chances are it's not a pumpkinseed unless someone put it there. I'm guessing redear x green. It looks like it might have the white halo around the fins of a green. Is the caudal edged in white or orange? That's my dos centavos.

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#15 Guest_UncleWillie_*

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 08:32 PM

If you caught it in TX, chances are it's not a pumpkinseed unless someone put it there. I'm guessing redear x green...

This was my first thought: P-seed in TX? Then after the new photos, I thought redear X green, but I'd hate to bring up the word hybrid and be totally off the grid with that speculation. I reckon Bruce is right - it's a Lepomis. :happy:

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#16 Guest_CreekStomper_*

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 11:50 PM

Yeah, the blue on the face is the first thing that stuck out to me. It's a weird conglomeration of traits, that's for sure.

Josh H

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#17 Guest_blakemarkwell_*

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 12:29 AM

Try holding onto a pure pumpkinseed/redear by the mouth with your thumb (I bet you could with that fish) -- it isn't going to happen unless your thumbs come from Homo floresiensis or you're really into destroying the mouths of fish. Where is that big mouth coming from? It's certainly not genetic variability, it's coming from L. cyanellus. A hybrid Lepomis -- nothing new. Beautiful fish.

Edited by blakemarkwell, 26 September 2011 - 12:33 AM.

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#18 Guest_MichiJim_*

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 11:08 AM

I have a lake near my home that gets planted with green X pumpkinseed crosses, and they look similar, but not quite the same. I would say Lepomis hybrid, and the redear X green sounds as good as anything I can come up with.

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#19 Guest_Usil_*

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 11:22 AM

Thanks for the help guys. I am catching these at Bear Creek in Keller Tx. Very close to my house and have gotten interested in seeing exactly what is calling this place home. I have been sampling about once a week and so far have found:

Lepomis cyanellus (Green)
Lepomis megalotis (Long ear)
Lepomis macrochirus (Blue gill)
Lepomis gulosus (Warmouth)
Lepomis auritus (Red Breasted)
Micropterus salmoides (Lg mouth bass)

And this, for lack of a better definition, hybrid - as consensus seems to be pointing to a cross between a Green and Red ear. The Red breasted, I am not sure of and wish I had taken a picture of it. I need to confirm this and will post if I see another one.

I have not caught a true Red Ear at this location yet. I am going back out today to see what else turns up. I have bought a Kodak mini video camera to play around with on my outings. It was cheap and supposed to be waterproof. I have taped it to a stick and will lower it in to a small pool to see what I can see this afternoon. Not sure how this will work out.

Questions:

1. How many different species of sunfish living together have others observed in other locations?

2. Does the Long ear I am seeing in Texas look the same as those found in other souther states? They seem different from the Northern and the Central varieties. Is this commonly called a Southern Longear?

Usil

Edited by Usil, 26 September 2011 - 11:30 AM.

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#20 Guest_Mike_*

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 12:21 PM

Questions:

1. How many different species of sunfish living together have others observed in other locations?

Dewart Lake in Indiana has the following Sunfish living together.

Lepomis cyanellus Green Sunfish
Lepomis megalotis Central Longear Sunfish
Lepomis peltastes Northern Longear Sunfish
Lepomis macrochirus Bluegill
Lepomis gibbosus Pumpkinseed Sunfish
Lepomis microlophus Redear Sunfish
Lepomis humilis Orangespotted Sunfish
Lepomis gulosus Warmouth

Non Lepomis:
Micropterus salmoides Largemouth Bass
Micropterus dolomieu Smallmouth Bass
Ambloplites rupestris Rock Bass
Pomoxis nigromaculatus Black Crappie

2. Does the Long ear I am seeing in Texas look the same as those found in other souther states? They seem different from the Northern and the Central varieties. Is this commonly called a Southern Longear?

Looks to me like Texas has three subsecies of Longear Sunfish the White River Longear, the Western Longear, & the Rio Grande Longear Sunfish.
Where you are its either the White River Longear, or the Western Longear.

I read somewhere that the Southern Longear Sunfish might be a subspecies of the Dollar Sunfish.

Edited by Mike, 26 September 2011 - 12:30 PM.