Dechlorinating and water changes

I work for a large water utility in So.Cal. At work when we de-water main lines and flush down storm drains we use Sodium Thiosulfate to dechlorinate the water. Any extra chemical we have left over usually gets dumped down the drain as well. Rather than throw it away I'd like to use it.

The stuff is liquid and the MSDS says it is 7.5%.

I have been using PRIME for my water changes. Is there any advantage of using PRIME over this? Also, does anyone know how much to use?

My home water service uses free chlorine to disinfect, up to about 1ppm. On my big tanks I'll do a 50%-60% change every two weeks, the smaller tank a bit more.

Any input is appreciated.

If you don't have chloromines then sodium thiosulphate is fine to use. I've done it for years before moving to Durham/Raleigh NC where I did have problems with ammonia from the break down of chloromines.

If you make 110 g in a final volume of 200 mls then each drop will treat a gallon. For chlorine 1 drop is fine, for chloromines 2 drops is what you need.

Cheers
Peter

Thank you for your reply but I'm sorry, I'm not completely understanding your answer.

Do you say that 200ml of Thio will dechlor 110 gallons of 1ppm free chlorine water?

Regardless, I will test for Cl2 before I add it.

110 grams of solid sodium thiosulfate to 200 milliliters of water is what I think he meant.

110 grams of solid sodium thiosulfate to 200 milliliters of water is what I think he meant.

Right, sorry, shouldn't have used abbreviations for metric! It is essentially the same as four ounces (an ounce is 28 grams) in a bit under half a pint (a pint is 473 mls). The exact concentration shouldn't be that critical.

Cheers
Peter

Thank you for your reply but I'm sorry, I'm not completely understanding your answer.

Do you say that 200ml of Thio will dechlor 110 gallons of 1ppm free chlorine water?

Regardless, I will test for Cl2 before I add it.

If you have a chlorine test kit, you could just add a drop to a gallon of water and test it. Repeat until you don't find chlorine.

If you have a chlorine test kit, you could just add a drop to a gallon of water and test it. Repeat until you don't find chlorine.

That is the easiest solution. *nods*

And you should also put one drop into five gallons of water and measure the chlorine concentration. This will help you avoid an overdose; if one drop is powerful enough to do five gallons then you don't want to be dosing at one drop per gallon.
Also test for ammonia after the chlorine titration is finished. If it jumps from 0 ppm with your tap water to like 1 ppm with the dechlorinator stuff, then you will know that you have a problem. If it stays at 0 then you're good.

Edited by EricaWieser, 20 November 2011 - 09:54 AM.

I'm pretty sure Prime is just sodium thiosulfate and aloe juice, with the aloe being basically snake oil. You should be fine using your stuff. It reacts with oxygen too, though, so you do want to get the dosage sort of close to right. High by a factor of 2 or 3 should be fine, but could be trouble if you add 10-20 times as much.

but could be trouble if you add 10-20 times as much.

I've killed fish with dechlorinator. It does happen, and it's not fun.
And it takes less than 10x overdose. Fish will start dying around 5 times too much.

Edited by EricaWieser, 20 November 2011 - 10:57 AM.

Thanks to Peter and the rest of you all. I've never over-dechlorinated because I'm too cheap to waste chemical but the cautions are noted.

I'll mix up a batch right now and try it out the way I was advised above. I did intend to test it after mixing it up and the reminder is appreciated.

I've never over-dechlorinated because I'm too cheap to waste chemical ...

I'm not sure what you were using that was expensive. The 'Dechlor' product that I bought by Weco company cost less than $2 and lasted me about four years. If this whole process starts being a headache to you, I can recommend that brand as being an inexpensive alternative.
Here's what it looks like: http://www.arcatapet...fullsize/27.jpg

It's more about making the trip to pick it up than the cost of the product.

It's more about making the trip to pick it up than the cost of the product.

What about Proline Complete[/i] sold by Aquactic Ecosystems. Not only does it convert ammonia, nitrites and some nitrates in to an inert substance the biofilter metabolizes (and doesn't hurt the biofilter), it also instantly elimininates chlorine and chloromines. Identical to Amquel and a table spoon treats 100 gallons.

http://www.aquaticec...Ammonia-Remover

What about Proline Complete[/i] sold by Aquactic Ecosystems. Not only does it convert ammonia, nitrites and some nitrates in to an inert substance the biofilter metabolizes (and doesn't hurt the biofilter), it also instantly elimininates chlorine and chloromines.

One could argue that by removing the ammonia (eaten by nitrosomonas bacteria) and nitrite (eaten by nitrospira bacteria), the Proline Complete is harming the biofilter by taking away its food. The number of bacteria that can grow is directly dependent on how much nitrogen is in the water column for them to eat. But even so, it's still a useful product for the not-planted tank. If it really does eliminate nitrogen from the water column then it would be easier to use on a new tank than the repeated water changes that are necessary to lower the initial ammonia spike until the bacteria growth rate can catch up.

Proline Complete would not be a good product to use regularly in a planted tank. Binding the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate removes the food from the plants. With no nitrogen in the water column, the plants would starve to death. My plants are my biofilter; they eat the ammonium and nitrate. So I want to keep them happy and growing, not take away their food. Growing plants, trimming them, and selling the snippets generates money. But it costs money to purchase Proline Complete®. I'll stick with the planted tank method and just a dechlorinator. After all, the growing plants are what pay for the fish food.

Does binding with hydroxymethanesulfonate make the ammonia unavailable to plants? After all, nitrogen in commercial fertilizers is usually bound up as sulfates, phosphates, or nitrates of ammonium and plants can still use that. Also, it is my understanding that the binding is impermanent- the bound ammonium will eventually re-dissolve.

I use Seachem Safe. It's way cheaper than Prime.

http://www.seachem.c...pages/Safe.html

https://www.directpe...8-oz-p17157.htm

Does binding with hydroxymethanesulfonate make the ammonia unavailable to plants? After all, nitrogen in commercial fertilizers is usually bound up as sulfates, phosphates, or nitrates of ammonium and plants can still use that.

Okay, that makes a lot more sense. I was wondering how binding the ammonia would not hurt the beneficial bacteria and/or plants. So they can still utilize the nitrogen as a food source even after it's modified? Yes, that would leave the biological filter unaffected. If that's how it works, then that's a pretty neat product.

Edited by EricaWieser, 21 November 2011 - 04:01 PM.

One could argue that by removing the ammonia (eaten by nitrosomonas bacteria) and nitrite (eaten by nitrospira bacteria), the Proline Complete is harming the biofilter by taking away its food.

That would beat watching your fish die from ammonia poisoning over the next month which is what I did to a tank of rainbowfish.

Cheers
Peter

That would beat watching your fish die from ammonia poisoning over the next month which is what I did to a tank of rainbowfish.

Cheers
Peter

Dude, I said that one sentence later. Lol.

Okay, that makes a lot more sense. I was wondering how binding the ammonia would not hurt the beneficial bacteria and/or plants. So they can still utilize the nitrogen as a food source even after it's modified? Yes, that would leave the biological filter unaffected. If that's how it works, then that's a pretty neat product.

And I'm thinking if you only used it to remove chlorine and chloromines for a 10 percent water change per day it should be fine. It's quite cheap actually. I think I paid $10.00 for enough to remove the above for probably 30 to 50 10 percent water changes (50 gallons in my case.)

I don't have chlorine issues but a school I set up with a 500 gallon system does.

Edited by az9, 22 November 2011 - 10:13 PM.