The recent talk on the effect of banded darters on tesselated had got me wondering about the other darters.
All too often this board has the assumption that darters = riffle fish. And that riffles mean darters.
But I wonder which darters are habitat generalists? Which ones specialize in slower river water? Which ones are pond specialists (just the swamp or are their others)?
I am curious on these unsung darters of the slower waters.
The other darters
Started by
Guest_FirstChAoS_*
, Dec 09 2011 06:39 AM
13 replies to this topic
#2
Michael Wolfe
-
- Board of Directors
-
- North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage
Posted 09 December 2011 - 08:18 AM
That's a very broad question... that I certainly cannot answer... but... all the information is there in your Petersons Field Guide... it lists habitats for almost every species.
I know I have been surprised in some situations at the habitats they will show up in... when I think of a riffle, I tend to think ankle deep water... but in some rivers, we have been very successful in water that was almost waste deep, still flowing, but deep.
And I always see the biggest logperch in the Conasauga in the areas that are deeper... there us a rocky bottom and moving water... but 4 feet deep or more.
And Iowas are supposed to be lake inhabitants, but they are beyond my range and experience.
I know I have been surprised in some situations at the habitats they will show up in... when I think of a riffle, I tend to think ankle deep water... but in some rivers, we have been very successful in water that was almost waste deep, still flowing, but deep.
And I always see the biggest logperch in the Conasauga in the areas that are deeper... there us a rocky bottom and moving water... but 4 feet deep or more.
And Iowas are supposed to be lake inhabitants, but they are beyond my range and experience.
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#3
Guest_fundulus_*
Guest_fundulus_*
-
- Guests
Posted 09 December 2011 - 08:50 AM
Michael's right, there's a fair amount of habitat diversity for darters. Swamp darters really are found in shallow swamps with little or no flow, and as was kicked around the other day tesellated darters can be found in slow waters. Some of the bigger darters like logperch, greenside and tangerine often prefer relatively deep flowing water if available. But certainly, the optimal place to look for most darters is relatively shallow, flowing water.
#4
Guest_NVCichlids_*
Guest_NVCichlids_*
-
- Guests
Posted 09 December 2011 - 09:23 AM
I had found several johnny darters in a backwater with next to no flow and heavily planted.
#5
Guest_EricaWieser_*
Guest_EricaWieser_*
-
- Guests
Posted 09 December 2011 - 09:39 AM
My profile picture is of an Etheostoma spectabile hunting for swordtail fry up among the Ceratophyllum demersum.
More pictures of orangethroated darters in plants:
http://img.photobuck...imiru/019-3.jpg
http://img.photobuck...imiru/022-1.jpg
http://img.photobuck...imiru/023-1.jpg
http://img.photobuck...imiru/015-2.jpg
They did not stay on the ground. They loved hunting through the nooks and crannies of the planted region of the tank.
More pictures of orangethroated darters in plants:
http://img.photobuck...imiru/019-3.jpg
http://img.photobuck...imiru/022-1.jpg
http://img.photobuck...imiru/023-1.jpg
http://img.photobuck...imiru/015-2.jpg
They did not stay on the ground. They loved hunting through the nooks and crannies of the planted region of the tank.
#6
Michael Wolfe
-
- Board of Directors
-
- North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage
Posted 09 December 2011 - 11:39 AM
My profile picture is of an Etheostoma spectabile hunting for swordtail fry up among the Ceratophyllum demersum.
They did not stay on the ground. They loved hunting through the nooks and crannies of the planted region of the tank.
But tanks are not natural habitats... first off they are not deep... and of course now you arr talking about what they can adapt to... not were they occur naturally... I don think darters NEED flowing water... they need cool water and they need oxygen for their metabolism... but many I will go so far as to say most... will adapt to aquarium life with much, much less flow.
Oh, and throw another one in there... Etheostoma edwini the brown darter... is a swampy kind of guy... small and fantasticly colored (despite the name)...
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#7
Guest_farmertodd_*
Guest_farmertodd_*
-
- Guests
Posted 09 December 2011 - 01:32 PM
I have found rainbow, greenside, fantail, johnny and logperch darters all happily living in glacial lakes.
What is being addressed here is the difference between what ecologists call the functional niche (all the places the species can live) and the realized niche (where the individual is living). The realized niche is shaped by the environmental conditions and biotic interactions (which includes their own species, other species, predators and prey) at local scales.
Todd
What is being addressed here is the difference between what ecologists call the functional niche (all the places the species can live) and the realized niche (where the individual is living). The realized niche is shaped by the environmental conditions and biotic interactions (which includes their own species, other species, predators and prey) at local scales.
Todd
Edited by farmertodd, 09 December 2011 - 01:45 PM.
#8
Guest_UncleWillie_*
Guest_UncleWillie_*
-
- Guests
Posted 09 December 2011 - 01:59 PM
My experiences have been quite limited, but I was quite surprised when camping two years ago to see several large logperch roaming around Chilhowee Lake (a deep mountainous inpoundment on the Little Tennessee). But around my area, I've only noticed blackbanded darters hanging out everywhere from in shallow fast riffles, to suspended in the water column in runs, to laying on logs or aquatic veg in no-flow eddies.
#9
Guest_fundulus_*
Guest_fundulus_*
-
- Guests
Posted 09 December 2011 - 02:16 PM
Yeah, blackbandeds are notoriously plastic in their habitat use. And seeing darters in glacial lakes would make sense too, ancestrally darters were probably lacustrine and if available clean, cool, oxygenated waters are around that's OK, too.
#10
Guest_blakemarkwell_*
Guest_blakemarkwell_*
-
- Guests
Posted 09 December 2011 - 03:16 PM
There are quite a few lentic percids. In the Midwest, you will find E. asprigene (Mud Darter), E. chlorosoma (Bluntnose Darter), E. gracile (Slough Darter), E. microperca (Least Darter), and E. proeliare (Cypress Darter) associated with ditches, sluggish streams, swamps, oxbows, and cut-off streams. The inundation of the coastal plain brought most of these to Illinois, even though E. microperca has a more northern (and western) distribution.
While Illinois only gets to see a glimpse of these awesome faunal assemblages, hugging the Atlantic coast or Gulf of Mexico will get you the bulk of coastal plain (thus lentic) percids. Some found there include E. edwini (Brown Darter), E. fusiforme (Swamp Darter) -- (and the recently split E. barratii), and E. serrifer (Sawcheek Darter). I've also found E. swaini (Gulf Darter) in a sluggish, vegetation-choked rivulet in Tennessee's coastal plain. Oh, and E. zonifer (Bandfin Darter) -- (like it's sister species, E. gracile) can also be found in lentic habitats. While the lentic percids don't even come close to the diversity of the lotics, I'm sure we will see some splits pop up once systematists get over their comfort zone and get into the swamps. They're tons of fun to be in, and dip-netting might get you something really cool like a Amphiuma, Siren, or Necturus depending on where you're at. Not to mention all the cool water snakes (Nerodia, Regina, Seminatrix), cottonmouths, frogs, turtles, plants, and more!
Even though I haven't spent much time in the Atlantic coastal plain, one stop in a small ditch (in North Carolina) had me obsessed and wanting more. It must have been the day for minis, because it yielded Chlorogaster cornuta (Swampfish), Gambusia holbrooki (Eastern Mosquitofish), Heterandria formosa (Least Killifish), Elassoma zonatum (Banded Pygmy Sunfish), E. fusiforme, and E. serrifer! One of these days I hope to set-up a mini-themed tank modeled after this very ditch....
Like Todd mentioned, the Kettle Lakes house some of the species you'd swear were only found in fast-flowing streams if you didn't sample a Kettle Lake. I remember wondering how two species very closely related, like E. exile (Iowa Darter) and E. luteovinctum (Redband Darter) could end up in seemingly disparate habitats -- from the limestone creeks of the Nashville Basin to the Kettle Lakes of the recently glaciated North. That was until I saw the lentic species Todd mentioned in there, and realized that it provides everything associated with flow, without providing flow....
While Illinois only gets to see a glimpse of these awesome faunal assemblages, hugging the Atlantic coast or Gulf of Mexico will get you the bulk of coastal plain (thus lentic) percids. Some found there include E. edwini (Brown Darter), E. fusiforme (Swamp Darter) -- (and the recently split E. barratii), and E. serrifer (Sawcheek Darter). I've also found E. swaini (Gulf Darter) in a sluggish, vegetation-choked rivulet in Tennessee's coastal plain. Oh, and E. zonifer (Bandfin Darter) -- (like it's sister species, E. gracile) can also be found in lentic habitats. While the lentic percids don't even come close to the diversity of the lotics, I'm sure we will see some splits pop up once systematists get over their comfort zone and get into the swamps. They're tons of fun to be in, and dip-netting might get you something really cool like a Amphiuma, Siren, or Necturus depending on where you're at. Not to mention all the cool water snakes (Nerodia, Regina, Seminatrix), cottonmouths, frogs, turtles, plants, and more!
Even though I haven't spent much time in the Atlantic coastal plain, one stop in a small ditch (in North Carolina) had me obsessed and wanting more. It must have been the day for minis, because it yielded Chlorogaster cornuta (Swampfish), Gambusia holbrooki (Eastern Mosquitofish), Heterandria formosa (Least Killifish), Elassoma zonatum (Banded Pygmy Sunfish), E. fusiforme, and E. serrifer! One of these days I hope to set-up a mini-themed tank modeled after this very ditch....
Like Todd mentioned, the Kettle Lakes house some of the species you'd swear were only found in fast-flowing streams if you didn't sample a Kettle Lake. I remember wondering how two species very closely related, like E. exile (Iowa Darter) and E. luteovinctum (Redband Darter) could end up in seemingly disparate habitats -- from the limestone creeks of the Nashville Basin to the Kettle Lakes of the recently glaciated North. That was until I saw the lentic species Todd mentioned in there, and realized that it provides everything associated with flow, without providing flow....
Edited by blakemarkwell, 09 December 2011 - 03:54 PM.
#11
Guest_Yeahson421_*
Guest_Yeahson421_*
-
- Guests
Posted 09 December 2011 - 04:26 PM
I've caught numerous Logperch, Iowas, and Johnnys in the Mississippi on the Southern border of MN. Around here, I've never caught a single darter in a stream but I have caught plenty in the river. Strange coincedince!
#12
Guest_Usil_*
Guest_Usil_*
-
- Guests
Posted 09 December 2011 - 04:28 PM
First darters I ever saw was when I was living in central Illinois on the Mississippi (Quincy) at the age of 15. I was walking a limestone creek and found them in a mud hole. I first saw a flash of red in the mud and when I finally saw them I was amazed.
Usil
Usil
#13
Guest_FirstChAoS_*
Guest_FirstChAoS_*
-
- Guests
Posted 09 December 2011 - 04:42 PM
I was thinking of going through petersons and dividing darter by habitat until I realized that was almost 100 pages with multiple darters per page.
Though I did look up tesselates in their and was suprised it said they are sometimes found in lakes as well.
Though I did look up tesselates in their and was suprised it said they are sometimes found in lakes as well.
#14
Guest_njJohn_*
Guest_njJohn_*
-
- Guests
Posted 09 December 2011 - 10:51 PM
Think about it, eggs, fry and adult fish coulld end up in down stream lakes. Not saying that accounts for all darters.
0 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users
NANFA Youtube Channel 
