Do you pet your fish?

http://www.funvid.hu...w&vid_id=104245

Usil

Neat video. I haven't had this reaction with fish, but then again I've never really tried. I have seen dozens of turtles react this way to having their shells/heads scratched and actively seek out keepers for this purpose, so it stands to reason that some fish should be capable of the same associations.

Josh H

That certainly does look a lot like an endorphin release as a result of petting like many mammals, which often facilitates social behavior. A schooling behavior would explain it to some degree. Though I didn't think catfish schooled except as babies. Another possibility is the initial stroking triggered a mating behavior which also likely involves endorphins. He might just be leaving his catfish frustrated

I noticed the fish snapped at him when his fingers got too close to its mouth. Maybe he conditioned it to take food from his hand.

I noticed the fish snapped at him when his fingers got too close to its mouth. Maybe he conditioned it to take food from his hand.

Highly plausible, but of those fish that feed from my hands getting attention or contact from anything but the mouth was not in the cards. The nip came only when the guy placed his fingers in front of its very sensitive snout and barbels impeding the catfishes motion. This fish obviously was not consistently investigating the hand for food. Too little attention was given from the mouth in search of food, often without pause going under the hand and arching its body to maintain skin contact.

Biting and nipping behavior is quiet common for lots of species during mating. I've seen male Common snapping turtles bite the skin off the back of the females head during mating. It may be possible to feed train a fish to do this with consistent petting prior to feeding. Slightly more indirect training than a simple food association, like training to pull a lever for food.

Highly plausible, but of those fish that feed from my hands getting attention or contact from anything but the mouth was not in the cards.

Here's an interesting example of that I found a couple years ago.

http://www.hbpondman...ngbassvideo.htm

There are a couple of attempts to "pet", but the fish really isn't into it the way the catfish is. Of course, I'm comparing black bass to catfish too, but I think we're limited on the number of examples we can find for a comparison.

Steve.

It could be sexual as you can see it's vent is engorged. The vent condition might just be automatic. Seeking out repeated contact seems to indicate it likes the contact.

Usil

Edited by Usil, 26 December 2011 - 12:01 PM.

It could be sexual as you can see it's vent is engorged. The vent condition might just be automatic. Seeking out repeated contact seems to indicate it likes the contact.

Usil

Not exactly the same thing but I once remember reading in the IN-Fisherman magazine where two of the magazine article staff were in a boat on a muskie lake. A musky actually raised his head out of the water and repeatedly clacked his jaws swimming back and forth as if looking at them. It was so weird and unbelievable they were afraid to tell anyone.

I would be skeptical too but I had a brook trout to the same thing to me while sitting in an ice shanty with the dog. He was obviously after food but he clearly stuck his head high out of the water in the ice hole clacking his jaws. My dog freaked so bad she nearly knocked over the shanty trying to get out.

Here is a picture of the fish after I went inside and got some pellets. Didn't stick his head completely out of the water for the picture but still somewhat: (Bottom left and right)

http://www.ligtel.co...baird/Brook.htm

he clearly stuck his head high out of the water in the ice hole clacking his jaws

Amazing. The question is, if all animals in the wild, do things based on instincts or instinctive behavior, what the heck is going on with the fish sticking his head out of the water accepting food? Surely he has never done this before. He has never seen food pellets at ice holes. An animal in the wild would not understand the link of getting food when sticking his head out. So, is this an act of desperation? He was hoping for a warmer home????

What other weird behavior has been observed?

Usil

Edited by Usil, 26 December 2011 - 08:31 PM.

Amazing. The question is, if all animals in the wild, do things based on instincts or instinctive behavior, what the heck is going on with the fish sticking his head out of the water accepting food? Surely he has never done this before. He has never seen food pellets at ice holes. An animal in the wild would not understand the link of getting food when sticking his head out. So, is this an act of desperation? He was hoping for a warmer home????

What other weird behavior has been observed?

Usil

My first thought on hearing about the trout was it could be a hatchery trout. Trout acclimated to being fed by humans are stocked in large numbers yearly. I am actually suprised he survived that long given how boldly he approaches fishermen.

When I was a teenager my uncle had a foot long plecostomus which when it saw my uncle come into the fish room, would immediately rush to the front glass and suck up to it right at the top and wait. My uncle would reach in and pick it up by the dorsal spine with his thumb and middle finger, petting its head with his pointer finger. The pleco would actually wiggle his tail in response. The pleco would not do this for anyone else. It was the funniest thing to see.

Mike

When I was a teenager my uncle had a foot long plecostomus which when it saw my uncle come into the fish room, would immediately rush to the front glass and suck up to it right at the top and wait. My uncle would reach in and pick it up by the dorsal spine with his thumb and middle finger, petting its head with his pointer finger. The pleco would actually wiggle his tail in response. The pleco would not do this for anyone else. It was the funniest thing to see.

Mike

Well now, I've seen a guy pettin' his catfish, and I've seen a guy feedin' a smallmouth with his lips, and I've even seen fish chompin' at the top of the water, but I ain't never seen nothin' like that!

Seriously though, that is amazing. I would have never guessed that any fish would desire to be picked up by the dorsal spine for any reason. I've pickup up bluegills out of a pond before while they were eating out of my hand, but they only tolerated it. It certainly wasn't their choice. That's really cool!

Steve.

P.S. I have seen what I believed to be minnows aggressively chomping at the top of the water. Just one out of the whole school of them. It is bizarre looking behavior.

Edited by frogwhacker, 27 December 2011 - 12:09 AM.

Maybe the description of the behaviors described here speak to how little we actually know about fish.

Usil

There are a couple of attempts to "pet", but the fish really isn't into it the way the catfish is. Of course, I'm comparing black bass to catfish too, but I think we're limited on the number of examples we can find for a comparison.

Steve.

about 0:30 in their is an interesting scene of a bass chasing a smaller fish.

The notion that a response is either instinctual or not doesn't have a clear dividing line. If instinct was an either or proposition then there is no way to evolve past pure instinctual behavior. Even humans have base emotional responses, such as jealousy, fear, suckling, holding breath in water, edge avoidance, etc., that illicit but do not require certain kinds of responses. The first step past instinct is of course Pavlovian style associative expectations. As soon as this is possible then behavior can also be modified by observed or even imagined connections between a given situation and a reward. Consider ichthyophobia. Maybe not as common as ophidiophobia or arachnaphobia but like coulrophobia more clearly lacks any realistic justification. Yet these phobias operate on the same biological level as instinctual predispositions. Wild canines are easily domesticated simply by breeding out what is called "flight distance", a part of their instinctual behavior. Like with the domesticated Siberian fox.

The point is that instinct alone is not a valid distinction when even the value of instincts more often than not require levels of associative skills in order to modify the effects of instincts to fit an environment or situation to maximize survival. Just as instincts do not restrict Pavlovian associative skills, neither do they restrict imaginative associative skills. Everything merely comes down to degrees, there is no either or in the equation. Even we do things daily "based" on instinctual predispositions, but of course it does not dictate how we may choose to modify those choices or contextualize the meaning of such predispositions.

Az something seems off about your brook trout feeding story, no not the unusually long hole in the ice bigger than a normal auger hole (some people do chip holes larger to fit minnow traps in the ice), but the fact that pellets similar to those used to feed hatchery trout are around the hole.

A trout came looking for food like a tame fish when the hole has trout food around it. That seems almost suspicious.

My first thought on hearing about the trout was it could be a hatchery trout. Trout acclimated to being fed by humans are stocked in large numbers yearly. I am actually suprised he survived that long given how boldly he approaches fishermen.

It was originally a raceway trout before planted into the flow through pond. No angling unless for culling or final harvest. Fish were sold to other taxidermists (I'm a fish taxidermist).

I still think it's odd the fish stuck his head so far out of the water and clacked his jaws.

forget petting, do you take your fish for walks?

(pic is likely non native as it looks carplike and likely fakes or set up, but it got a chuckle from me)

Sharks and rays are readily tamed to enjoy petting and will come to the surface of a shallow tank just to brush against fingers. I've seen that behavior in several public aquariums. No idea why though.

That catfish in the video is just lonely in that barren tank.