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New here, curious about our natives!

Started by Guest_purplemuffin_* , Jan 30 2012 04:35 PM

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#1 Guest_purplemuffin_*

Guests

Posted 30 January 2012 - 04:35 PM

Hello!

My name is Kat. My family is planning to build a fairly small pond for some goldfish, but we all love a little variety. Other than goldfish, I had a hard time finding species that could tolerate Texas weather that were a proper size. Either they got huge or they were 'snack size'! :rolleyes:

The pond would be about 600 gallons, with another 250 gallon pond above the waterfall(would be used basically as the filter, also would have plenty of plants to help keep the water clean, and of course make it so there is more clean water for the fish)

We were planning on a fairly low stocked pond, I know quite a few goldfish could live in a pond that size, but we would rather have a more empty pond with cleaner water than a fully stocked pond that is harder to manage the bioload.

Anyway, someone pointed me to this forum after I asked about the possibility of stocking "pumpkinseed sunfish" in the pond. They seemed to fit the bill--they get a decent size, nothing huge like a koi, but not tiny like mosquito fish. They tolerate a wide range of temperatures(being one of our natives), and they aren't as short lived as some of the other fish I was finding. Plus, they are lovely!

From what I'm finding, they seem to be more common to the northern areas. Our pond is actually going to be extremely shaded and from experience with our smaller 250 we already have we have found that it seems to stay cool enough in the summer, but not too cold in the winter thanks to the location.

Now, I've heard they can be aggressive. I keep bettas, so I know what it's like to have aggressive fish. But I wonder--are these the kind of fish that won't tolerate any company, or are they more like female bettas---having two is a bad idea, as they will kill each other. Having 5 is better, as the aggression is spread out so no one is picked on? It would also be a very well planted pond with plenty of cover.

The basic dimensions planned was to make it a 5ft by 5ft pond, I'm pushing to make it larger, but we'll see how far it can go with the space. It would still be several feet deep, and there is also the 5ftx2ftx3.5ft 250 gallon pond that is above. It could be used as a separation place I suppose for particularly aggressive fish.

If this won't work, that's fine. All this research just came from a day of surfing and an idea that just hit me. I would still like at least one native to add to my little pond. Just trying to find one that can live in Texas--so through warm and cold times, hopefully gets to somewhere between 6"-14" or so, and I would personally like a fairly long lived one(Longer than 3 years at least!) If nothing fits the bill, I am sure with your help I could figure out what is possible.

Right now we have no fish. Nothing is really set in stone about the stocking--We'd like shubunkin goldfish, then maybe some comets and commons. How many of each, I don't know. I could cut back on goldfish to make room for more native fishes.

And of course I'd love to learn about collection and stuff. I can't find where it talks about the rules on collecting these guys--I guess cause they aren't common where I live(though I can see in some fishing statistics that they are here in some places!) so I guess I want to learn about that as well.

Edited by purplemuffin, 30 January 2012 - 04:37 PM.

#2 Guest_purplemuffin_*

Guests

Posted 30 January 2012 - 04:59 PM

Though to be honest, I'd rather buy one than catch one.

I just am hoping to find a vendor who gets healthy ones in stock.

#3 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 30 January 2012 - 05:16 PM

So first, just for fun and because it is not too expensive, you should get the book "Freshwater Fishes of Texas" by Thomas, Bonner & Whiteside... great guys that spoke at the NANFA convention a few years back when we were in Athens, TX.

Second, according to that book there are Longear Sunfish, Lepomis megalotis throughout Texas. THese are medium sized and hardy residents of your state... and beautiful to boot... just google "longear sunfish" for some pictures... or search "longear" here of the forum and you will get a lot of information and pics.

Third, forget about the carp (koi, goldfish, whatever). Go Native!

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

#4 Guest_EricaWieser_*

Guests

Posted 30 January 2012 - 05:29 PM

My first thought when reading your post, other than joy at someone wanting some native fish in their pond, was to think about this sentence: "The pond would be about 600 gallons, with another 250 gallon pond above the waterfall(would be used basically as the filter, also would have plenty of plants to help keep the water clean, and of course make it so there is more clean water for the fish)" Why not put a filter in? I know that plants certainly do help with the filtration, yes, but it's not difficult to build a filter and add one for cheap. There are lots of different designs from sponge media based like this one: http://www.thetempos.com/pf1.htm to a really nice fluidized bed: http://3.bp.blogspot... bed filter.png More info: http://www.bioconlabs.com/abtqs.html
But basically whatever filter you use, it's going to be better than hoping that you have enough plants. It's not like a filter would be expensive; it wouldn't cost much at all to make a fluidized bed out of a big garbage can with a pump pushing water in to the bottom of it and a slit for an overflow at the top to direct the water to fall into your pond. Sand would be tossed around in the middle of the garbage can but not reach the surface of the water where the overflow is. Very simple, very cheap, and it would add quite a lot of surface area for the beneficial bacteria to live in. Plants can eat either ammonium or nitrate, so it doesn't hurt them to convert all of your waste to nitrate and it benefits your fish quite a lot. There's no reason not to have beneficial bacteria in the pond, ya know?
More information on the subject: http://theaquariumwi...ical_Filtration
http://www.fishkeepi...ing-article.htm

Anyway, so, I would add a filter. That's just me.

My next thought is the sentence, "The basic dimensions planned was to make it a 5ft by 5ft pond, I'm pushing to make it larger, but we'll see how far it can go with the space. It would still be several feet deep, and there is also the 5ftx2ftx3.5ft 250 gallon pond that is above. It could be used as a separation place I suppose for particularly aggressive fish." Our own pond was plagued by neighborhood piscivores. You might want to consider having a region of the pond that is very deep so that the fish can hide there when things try to eat them. It's also worth considering making only some of your walls sloped. A sudden drop wall, although less useful for fish spawning, also prevents wading birds or raccoons from standing in your shallows and snatching at your fish. Our pond had a region that was about 5 feet deep and it seemed to work. A greater maximum depth also decreases temperature fluctuations and increases survival overwinter.

As for collecting your own fish or buying, and actually which fish to focus on, I'll let the other NANFA members take a crack at that first before I comment.
Edit: I see that Michael Wolfe beat me to responding first. Not saying I support the longear suggestion or anything *cough* but here is a picture of a beautiful longear: http://www.ux1.eiu.e...ear_sunfish.jpg Gorgeous, no?

Edited by EricaWieser, 30 January 2012 - 05:38 PM.

#5 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 30 January 2012 - 05:49 PM

Erica's pic is a good one...

http://forum.nanfa.o...-lepomis-genus/

Here is another link in the forum that has some great pics...

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

#6 Guest_gerald_*

Guests

Posted 30 January 2012 - 08:08 PM

Orange-spotted sunfish is another TX-native beauty to consider; stays smaller than longear sunnie.
Others that might do well include red shiner, redfin shiner, plains killifish, golden-ear killie, black-spotted topminnow ...

#7 Guest_purplemuffin_*

Guests

Posted 31 January 2012 - 12:02 PM

Second, according to that book there are Longear Sunfish, Lepomis megalotis throughout Texas. THese are medium sized and hardy residents of your state... and beautiful to boot... just google "longear sunfish" for some pictures... or search "longear" here of the forum and you will get a lot of information and pics.

Third, forget about the carp (koi, goldfish, whatever). Go Native!

The longear was one of the first I looked at, but it seemed to have a shorter lifespan than the pumpkin seed, at least according to what I was finding. I suppose that is okay though, I just like the sound of pets that have the chance to live over ten years! :biggrin:

And sorry, the pond is technically my parents. The goldfish are what they want above all else. The natives are 'my' little additions to their pond. :tongue:

My first thought when reading your post, other than joy at someone wanting some native fish in their pond, was to think about this sentence: "The pond would be about 600 gallons, with another 250 gallon pond above the waterfall(would be used basically as the filter, also would have plenty of plants to help keep the water clean, and of course make it so there is more clean water for the fish)" Why not put a filter in? I know that plants certainly do help with the filtration, yes, but it's not difficult to build a filter and add one for cheap. There are lots of different designs from sponge media based like this one: http://www.thetempos.com/pf1.htm to a really nice fluidized bed: http://3.bp.blogspot... bed filter.png More info: http://www.bioconlabs.com/abtqs.html
But basically whatever filter you use, it's going to be better than hoping that you have enough plants. It's not like a filter would be expensive; it wouldn't cost much at all to make a fluidized bed out of a big garbage can with a pump pushing water in to the bottom of it and a slit for an overflow at the top to direct the water to fall into your pond. Sand would be tossed around in the middle of the garbage can but not reach the surface of the water where the overflow is. Very simple, very cheap, and it would add quite a lot of surface area for the beneficial bacteria to live in. Plants can eat either ammonium or nitrate, so it doesn't hurt them to convert all of your waste to nitrate and it benefits your fish quite a lot. There's no reason not to have beneficial bacteria in the pond, ya know?
More information on the subject: http://theaquariumwi...ical_Filtration
http://www.fishkeepi...ing-article.htm

Anyway, so, I would add a filter. That's just me.

My next thought is the sentence, "The basic dimensions planned was to make it a 5ft by 5ft pond, I'm pushing to make it larger, but we'll see how far it can go with the space. It would still be several feet deep, and there is also the 5ftx2ftx3.5ft 250 gallon pond that is above. It could be used as a separation place I suppose for particularly aggressive fish." Our own pond was plagued by neighborhood piscivores. You might want to consider having a region of the pond that is very deep so that the fish can hide there when things try to eat them. It's also worth considering making only some of your walls sloped. A sudden drop wall, although less useful for fish spawning, also prevents wading birds or raccoons from standing in your shallows and snatching at your fish. Our pond had a region that was about 5 feet deep and it seemed to work. A greater maximum depth also decreases temperature fluctuations and increases survival overwinter.

As for collecting your own fish or buying, and actually which fish to focus on, I'll let the other NANFA members take a crack at that first before I comment.
Edit: I see that Michael Wolfe beat me to responding first. Not saying I support the longear suggestion or anything *cough* but here is a picture of a beautiful longear: http://www.ux1.eiu.e...ear_sunfish.jpg Gorgeous, no?

I didn't explain that well. I did mean I was going to put in/build a filter. I was planning on using the top 250 gallon thing as the filter, adding a big area to hold filter medium, and then having it waterfall into the larger pond.
Posted Image

^Sort of like that, but on a grander scale. The black part at the top would be where the 250 gallon would be.

Making it deeper is highly possible! I can go deeper. It's wider where we are a bit cramped in.

Erica's pic is a good one...

http://forum.nanfa.o...-lepomis-genus/

Here is another link in the forum that has some great pics...

Thanks for the link! It helps me to see them all lined up like that.

Orange-spotted sunfish is another TX-native beauty to consider; stays smaller than longear sunnie.
Others that might do well include red shiner, redfin shiner, plains killifish, golden-ear killie, black-spotted topminnow ...

Aww those orange spotted ones are pretty cute. They are so small though, I feel like I would rather see them in an aquarium setting so I could see them better! But thanks for the suggestions, I'll keep them in mind. Variety is fun, and if my parents change their mind on the huge fish, I might be more willing to consider the smaller ones.

I honestly want a Texas native aquarium at some point when I move out. Always had bettas, but it would be nice to see some of our own pretty fish.

Edited by purplemuffin, 31 January 2012 - 12:03 PM.