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Breeding Darters

Started by Guest_SDC010_* , Feb 18 2012 06:02 PM

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17 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_SDC010_*

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 06:02 PM

I have two full grown slenderhead darters. They live in a 30 gallon aquarium with a green sunfish, two bullhead catfish, and a channel catfish. there is dense vegitation. i was wondering if they will breed. i know nothing about breeding darters but if it is not to difficult it is something i would like to try. i have an empty 40 gallon aquarium if they need to be alone.

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#2 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 06:07 PM

I tried to breed darters and failed. The Etheostoma spectabile that I tried loved to eat fry. I had swordtails in the tank with them and they ate every single last swordtail fry in the tank, climbing up into the ceratophyllum demersum to do it (that's what my profile picture shows, a female Etheostoma spectabile in the plants). Because swordtail fry are even larger than darter fry, I can safely conclude that it is nigh on impossible to breed darters in a single tank. Now if you had multiple tanks, you could rotate the darters around and once they laid their eggs remove them to a different tank. In that situation you could get fry.

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#3 Guest_FirstChAoS_*

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 06:45 PM

I wonder if anyone successfully bred darters. The closest I heard was BT Darters breeding of Johnny darters where the few eggs that survived and hatched lead to fry that wouldn't eat.

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#4 Guest_fundulus_*

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 07:07 PM

Check out Conservation Fisheries in Knoxville, TN, at http://conservationfisheries.org/ for some examples of successfully breeding both relatively common and very rare darters. They do it professionally, but they're really not all that far removed from the capabilities of many fishkeepers.

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#5 Guest_Ken_*

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 07:52 PM

I have bred and raised a few varieties though I have never bred slenderheads. And am in the process of breeding more. I cycle the lights down through the winter months and keep my tanks in the high thirties to low forties beginning in December and raising the temps again @ March. Though I may start raisiing the temps/lights a bit earlier this year (early March). It's been tough this year keeping the temps down because we have had such a mild winter. My males are already coloring up and starting to get territorial and a number of females are getting fulll of roe. They are also getting hungrier. I would imagine unless you can chill your slenderheads into the 40's for a good period of timethey are most likely not going to spawn for you. Are you sure you have a pair?

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#6 Guest_exasperatus2002_*

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 09:28 PM

I have bred and raised a few varieties though I have never bred slenderheads. And am in the process of breeding more. I cycle the lights down through the winter months and keep my tanks in the high thirties to low forties beginning in December and raising the temps again @ March. Though I may start raisiing the temps/lights a bit earlier this year (early March). It's been tough this year keeping the temps down because we have had such a mild winter. My males are already coloring up and starting to get territorial and a number of females are getting fulll of roe. They are also getting hungrier. I would imagine unless you can chill your slenderheads into the 40's for a good period of timethey are most likely not going to spawn for you. Are you sure you have a pair?

When your temps are that low, can you still feed them & if so how often? I know with goldfish in my pond if I feed them below a certain temp, the food can rot in their stomach & kill them. But then these are goldfish & not native fish who are better suited for the northern winter.

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#7 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 09:36 PM

I know with goldfish in my pond if I feed them below a certain temp, the food can rot in their stomach & kill them. But then these are goldfish & not native fish who are better suited for the northern winter.

Where did you hear that? Is it true?

Something that I find kind of interesting is that goldfish don't have true stomachs. Here are some internal anatomy photos (don't click this link if you're squeamish): http://thegab.org/Go...al-anatomy.html

Goldfish are actually well adapted to cold winters, and it's easier to spawn them if you drop the temperature for a month or more to simulate a winter period. They're a little like darters in that sense.

Edited by EricaWieser, 18 February 2012 - 09:49 PM.

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#8 Guest_Ken_*

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 10:09 PM

I reduce the feeding during the chilled period to three times a week and as a general rule at @ half the volume of food. Usually they stay under or near their rocks during the coldest temps only to hit the food as it passes if at all. I hate generalizing feeding because I have quite a variety of darters (each in their own tanks) and some darters will eat different foods if offered. For example, I went to the creek today and got quite a few small minnows, 1 water boatman and 1 gammarus (which is what I really wanted). I brought them home and put some of the minnows in a few tanks. Tank temps are at mid forties. Anyway, my Piedmonts were having a feast, but the three other tanks (blackbanded, logperch and varigated) not so much. When I add bloodworms at this temp. most of them come out to eat though not so much the redlined and banded darters which surpises me since bandeds are northern and used to colder temps. I adjust the amount of bloodworms I add to each tank. It works for me anyway. since I've been keeping /breeding darters I've only lost 8 not counting the dozens of Fantails and Johnnies raised and culled out to use as food for the sunfish community tank.

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#9 Michael Wolfe

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North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 18 February 2012 - 10:09 PM

I wonder if anyone successfully bred darters. The closest I heard was BT Darters breeding of Johnny darters where the few eggs that survived and hatched lead to fry that wouldn't eat.

Yes, people have bred darters... like Bruce said, has been done on a large scale... but also Michigan NANFAn Bob Muller has bred several darters and written some nice American Currents articles on his techniques... and I am glad to see Ken chime in here with his experience... he has captive bred darters (several species)... and Ken needs to write that up as an AC article also...

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

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#10 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 10:24 PM

... dozens of Fantails and Johnnies raised and culled out to use as food for the sunfish community tank.

You bred darters so much that you were able to use them as feeders? What? I want to read an AC article on your breeding setup too. Or a topic on this forum.

Edited by EricaWieser, 18 February 2012 - 10:31 PM.

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#11 Guest_Ken_*

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 10:41 PM

They were just Johnnies and Fantails. Quite easy. Also quite a bit different than the others I've raised. But if there is interest I can do that.

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#12 Guest_Ken_*

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 10:51 PM

Yes, people have bred darters... like Bruce said, has been done on a large scale... but also Michigan NANFAn Bob Muller has bred several darters and written some nice American Currents articles on his techniques... and I am glad to see Ken chime in here with his experience... he has captive bred darters (several species)... and Ken needs to write that up as an AC article also...

Does that count as a Fish In Focus???

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#13 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 19 February 2012 - 12:05 AM

Does that count as a Fish In Focus???

Sure! Sharing about a fish is all it takes... and everyone wants to know about your breeding successes.

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

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#14 Guest_SDC010_*

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 10:45 AM

i have two full grown (about 3 or 3 and a half inches long), and two juvenile(about 1 and a half inches). how would i be able to sex the slenderheads?

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#15 Guest_Ken_*

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 02:41 PM

i have two full grown (about 3 or 3 and a half inches long), and two juvenile(about 1 and a half inches). how would i be able to sex the slenderheads?

Percina are more difficult to sex when not in breeding condition or not adults. That's why I was asking. Since I don't have Slenderheads yet I will tell you what I look for in males. Territorial combating, dorsal and/or body coloration becoming more intense, and in the case of my Blackbanded they have a thicker body are much larger than the females. This isn't fool proof and again this much more noticable during preperation for breeding. Here is a website I found that can help you a bit more. http://www.dnr.state...spx?tabid=21823

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#16 Guest_Ken_*

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 03:25 PM

I reduce the feeding during the chilled period to three times a week and as a general rule at @ half the volume of food. Usually they stay under or near their rocks during the coldest temps only to hit the food as it passes if at all. I hate generalizing feeding because I have quite a variety of darters (each in their own tanks) and some darters will eat different foods if offered. For example, I went to the creek today and got quite a few small minnows, 1 water boatman and 1 gammarus (which is what I really wanted). I brought them home and put some of the minnows in a few tanks. Tank temps are at mid forties. Anyway, my Piedmonts were having a feast, but the three other tanks (blackbanded, logperch and varigated) not so much. When I add bloodworms at this temp. most of them come out to eat though not so much the redlined and banded darters which surpises me since bandeds are northern and used to colder temps. I adjust the amount of bloodworms I add to each tank. It works for me anyway. since I've been keeping /breeding darters I've only lost 8 not counting the dozens of Fantails and Johnnies raised and culled out to use as food for the sunfish community tank.

Correction.... the blackbandeds did eat all of the minnows I gave them..

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#17 Guest_AndrewMeiborg_*

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 05:45 PM

thanks for the website about the slenderheads. It should be a little easier to find out once it gets warmer and the tanks heat up a bit

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#18 Guest_GreatLakesAquatics_*

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 06:56 PM

Your slenderhead darters will breed and of course you can induce this but bullhead cats eat everything in sight and grow at an alarming rate. I have been breeding Iowa darters fir several years and I have learned one very important thing. In the wild few make it but they must get away from even the parents. Any cat or crustaceon that can smell will devour the eggs, the parents will devour newly hatched fry. they live in rivers where the fry can get away. in an enclosed environment they are very vulnerable. the parents need to be removed.