spottail shiner?
#1 Guest_6ghokie_*
Posted 06 March 2012 - 07:45 PM
#2
Posted 06 March 2012 - 11:09 PM
#3 Guest_gerald_*
Posted 07 March 2012 - 11:01 AM
I wonder do spottails ever hybridize with Cyprinella ??? What other shiners did you catch with it? Did you find any more "normal" looking hudsonius?
Edited by gerald, 07 March 2012 - 11:03 AM.
#4
Posted 07 March 2012 - 11:24 AM
#5 Guest_blakemarkwell_*
Posted 07 March 2012 - 12:21 PM
#6 Guest_blakemarkwell_*
Posted 07 March 2012 - 12:27 PM
#7 Guest_blakemarkwell_*
Posted 07 March 2012 - 04:14 PM
Color, pattern and head/snout shape does looks like N. hudsonius to me, but the thick body and dorsal fin shape are odd.
I wonder do spottails ever hybridize with Cyprinella ??? What other shiners did you catch with it? Did you find any more "normal" looking hudsonius?
I keep coming back to this fish.... I think you guys are onto something with the hybrid. I'm not sure if N. hudsonius is known to hybridize with Cyprinella, but there are hybrid reports between almost all North American cyprinid genera. Both Cyprinella and Notropis have the same karyotype (2n=50), so it's nothing too weird; however, I've never seen Cyprinella and N. hudsonius spawning in the same habitat (or microhabitat) out here in Illinois....
#8 Guest_6ghokie_*
Posted 07 March 2012 - 08:17 PM
Blacknose Dace
Rosyside Dace
Bluntnose Minnow
Common Shiner
Don't know if that helps with the hybrid theory. There are survey reports for this stream with data for plenty of other species.
#9 Guest_6ghokie_*
Posted 07 March 2012 - 08:30 PM
Attached Files
#10 Guest_blakemarkwell_*
Posted 07 March 2012 - 10:39 PM
#11 Guest_VicC_*
Posted 12 March 2012 - 10:59 PM
but the range map doesn't agree,
but the fins and coloration look good.
#12 Guest_NativePA_*
Posted 05 April 2012 - 02:13 PM
#13 Guest_jblaylock_*
Posted 06 April 2012 - 09:00 AM
#14 Guest_blakemarkwell_*
Posted 06 April 2012 - 12:49 PM
In the last photo, the fish on the left looks like a Silver chub
Looks a lot more like a Rhinichthys atratulus to me.
#15 Guest_tomterp_*
Posted 12 January 2014 - 08:43 PM
I keep coming back to this fish.... I think you guys are onto something with the hybrid. I'm not sure if N. hudsonius is known to hybridize with Cyprinella, but there are hybrid reports between almost all North American cyprinid genera. Both Cyprinella and Notropis have the same karyotype (2n=50), so it's nothing too weird; however, I've never seen Cyprinella and N. hudsonius spawning in the same habitat (or microhabitat) out here in Illinois....
Ok, nothing like resurrecting an old thread. But I've been combing through old posts looking for collecting discussions around area watersheds and have a few thoughts.
First of all, Sugarland Run is in Fairfax County, who have performed a bit of survey activity and listed fishes they've identified, along with a "dot" on the map where found. One wishes every locality had such a resource!
http://www.fairfaxco...ishes_of_fx.htm
Now as for Sugarland Run specifically, the map isn't quite detailed enough to tell with 100% certainty but it appears both N. hudsonius and Cyprinilla spp have been found at that sampling site, near the confluence with the Potomac. Here's the N. hudsonius map, note the dot at the very top is the Sugarland Run area:
http://www.fairfaxco...s2.htm#spottail
N. procne were not found in that specific site but there are plenty within 6-8 miles or so, so the possibility can't be ruled out.
http://www.fairfaxco...htm#swallowtail
The complaint I have with the Fairfax County site, and with many other fish resources, is that they typically provide a map to find specific species but don't tell you what was found or is likely to be found at a specific site. The "Fishes of West Virginia" I've been perusing lately is another example. I spent the better part of a day reading the entire text fish by fish to compile a list of suspects for the area of the river I have most interest in. It sure would be nice to pick a spot and find out what was sampled there.
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