Catfish with plants

Hey all,
I'm setting up a 90 gallon 48x25x18. I'm going to use playsand with pea gravel then lager size stone, drift wood etc... I have yllw bullheads to go in currently, probably going to add the appor sized redfin and maybe sunfish. I've only had Banana Plants (Nymphoides aquatica?) in a similar setup for pickerel that grew insanely. What are some mid-large easy choices good for the setup?? I never use a heater, keep it pretty lit with 2- 4ft florescent, 20% water change a week and a 110 aquaclear hanging off the back. I was thinking of splitting the bottom, with the sand substrate/gravel, and just gravel so I can use a under gravel filter ,,,no?. Maybe just more snail?- trumpets and rams horn are cool. I like to keep things simple and go for the overgrown look.

p.s. I want to add some tunnels under and the substrate and drift wood has anyone done this before? And comment and criticism are welcomed!

Hey all,
I'm setting up a 90 gallon 48x25x18. I'm going to use playsand with pea gravel then lager size stone, drift wood etc... I have yllw bullheads to go in currently, probably going to add the appor sized redfin and maybe sunfish. I've only had Banana Plants (Nymphoides aquatica?) in a similar setup for pickerel that grew insanely. What are some mid-large easy choices good for the setup?? I never use a heater, keep it pretty lit with 2- 4ft florescent, 20% water change a week and a 110 aquaclear hanging off the back. I was thinking of splitting the bottom, with the sand substrate/gravel, and just gravel so I can use a under gravel filter ,,,no?. Maybe just more snail?- trumpets and rams horn are cool. I like to keep things simple and go for the overgrown look.

p.s. I want to add some tunnels under and the substrate and drift wood has anyone done this before? And comment and criticism are welcomed!

I don't know much about keeping game fish (other than sunfish) with plants, so I can't comment as to whether they are good tankmates. However, I can give a few reccomendations:

Sand/peagravel only isn't a good plant substrate. Stone in general is a pretty sterile substrate, making it hard for the plants to get nutrients. People do have success with small-sized gravels most likely due to the mulm that filters down. I have never had much success at all with just sand or with new gravel. I would reccommend either soil, or if you are afraid the catfish will dig it up, then a small-grained gravel that the poop and plant debris can filter down into. You could also mix some potting soil in with a fine gravel then top it off with straight gravel if desired, go get a jumpstart on the mulm collection.

Undergravel filters tend to clog in planted tanks, as water movement becomes restricted. I honestly don't worry about aerating the sediment, and I've never had a problem. Some of my tanks do have Malaysian trumpet snails (which burrow at night), but others don't and I haven't see a difference in plant growth. Do be careful with ramshorns, as many of them are fantastic plant eaters!

I'm not sure what you mean by tunnels - do you mean tunnels under the substrate for fish to go through? Not sure how this would be accomplished, or why you would want to. Dirftwood is often used to a nice effect; you can just pop it in the tank as you please. It can yellow the water a bit, but most folks don't seem to mind.

Good native plants I can think of for this setup would be American valisneria and Echinodorus cordifolius (although the latter can be hard to come by). Some Sagittarias may also fit the bill. As you know, banana plants are cool IF the tubers are at least 1/3 buried so that they can grow. Bacopa caroliniana will also grow somewhat tall and if it can grow in the air has a neat blue flower (and has a nifty menthol scent, too). Some of the taller Eleocharis species can also grow underwater given enough light; you'd just have to play around with those.

I don't know much about keeping game fish (other than sunfish) with plants, so I can't comment as to whether they are good tankmates. However, I can give a few reccomendations:

Sand/peagravel only isn't a good plant substrate. Stone in general is a pretty sterile substrate, making it hard for the plants to get nutrients. People do have success with small-sized gravels most likely due to the mulm that filters down. I have never had much success at all with just sand or with new gravel. I would reccommend either soil, or if you are afraid the catfish will dig it up, then a small-grained gravel that the poop and plant debris can filter down into. You could also mix some potting soil in with a fine gravel then top it off with straight gravel if desired, go get a jumpstart on the mulm collection.

Undergravel filters tend to clog in planted tanks, as water movement becomes restricted. I honestly don't worry about aerating the sediment, and I've never had a problem. Some of my tanks do have Malaysian trumpet snails (which burrow at night), but others don't and I haven't see a difference in plant growth. Do be careful with ramshorns, as many of them are fantastic plant eaters!

I'm not sure what you mean by tunnels - do you mean tunnels under the substrate for fish to go through? Not sure how this would be accomplished, or why you would want to. Dirftwood is often used to a nice effect; you can just pop it in the tank as you please. It can yellow the water a bit, but most folks don't seem to mind.

Good native plants I can think of for this setup would be American valisneria and Echinodorus cordifolius (although the latter can be hard to come by). Some Sagittarias may also fit the bill. As you know, banana plants are cool IF the tubers are at least 1/3 buried so that they can grow. Bacopa caroliniana will also grow somewhat tall and if it can grow in the air has a neat blue flower (and has a nifty menthol scent, too). Some of the taller Eleocharis species can also grow underwater given enough light; you'd just have to play around with those.

Thanks for the knowledge, I'll probably stay away from the underground filters, I wasn't sure if I needed more filtration. So sand and small grained with heavy mulm, I don't think go for the soil just yet. Yes just subsurface tunnels between pieces of drift wood or a underground burrow for darters or little cats. Maybe feeders hide there, or other creature??? Yea I buried the bananna plants and they just shot up and multiplied, they were in sand and light gravel too, but there was always alot of mulm in the tank. I'm gong to look into theplants, they look like what i want. Thanks again for your advice!!!!!!