Sunfish and cichlids?

What would happen if you mixed sunfish and cichlids? I've been telling people about sunfish and how native fish can be colorful too, and the first question they ask me is if they can add sunfish to their existing tank. These tanks often already have African or South American cichlids, angelfish, or discus.

Has anyone ever tried to mix a species of sunfish with a species of cichlid? What species of fish in what size tank did you use and what was the result?

Edited by EricaWieser, 08 May 2012 - 09:54 PM.

I always wondered that myself. I have raised both by themselves but never mixed them. I would think that they would be competitive and territorial. Probably have fights.

Usil

I went on youtube to poll for some data and got the following:

1. Jewel cichlid versus bluegill: The jewel cichlid, one third the size of the bluegill, chases it relentlessly around the tank. youtube.com/watch?v=-TDqrpAkQbA&feature=fvst
2. Two african cichlids and a green sunfish: No mingling. Terrified sunfish first hides in cave and then begs camera for escape from tank. (I could be projecting a bit) youtube.com/watch?v=r8dKq4kNLRY&feature=fvst
3. African cichlids and 'sunfish': Sunfish successfully gets food in a mostly cichlid tank. youtube.com/watch?v=dCYwq7lPask
4. 'Green' sunfish bluegill jack dempsey and auratus: Probably one of the most stationary tanks I've ever seen. They really don't seem to be fighting. Or interacting. Or moving, really. youtube.com/watch?v=W1Tf_37MN0g

So... jewel cichlids are meaner than jack dempseys. Wait a second.
I think I need a larger poll population. Please feel free to chime in

Edited by EricaWieser, 09 May 2012 - 01:40 AM.

Jewel cichlids are little devils, and Jack Dempseys are pretty wimpy. That's what I learned working at an LFS years ago.

Rio Grande (aka Texas) Cichlids cohabitate in the wild with centrarchids, but I'd watch their aggression in the tank. Don't let them spawn, or it will be ugly. It all depends on what size tank, what species, and the individual personalities of the fishes. I've kept a warmouth with SA Geophagus species before with no problem.

Some things might be general for species but individual personalities probably play a more important part. Then there is size and numbers which change dynamics.

Usil

I have friends who keep pumpkinseeds with central american cichlids no problems as long as they are of similar size. I haven't done it, but I know most sunfish (lep's.) will be able to hold their own against a similar sized cichlid.

I would never keep a sunfish with angels or discus. The water needs to be WAy to warm for Discus and both of those cichlids are fragile (IMO).

Dwarf cichlids would bully any of the smaller sunfish, but if you mixed a bluegill with an apisto, the apisto is lunch.

African cichlids is just a dumb idea to keep sunfish with IMO. I get sick inside seeing people mix fish from different continents in the same tank.

I also would not keep a midas/red devil/ umbee/jaguar/ or neets with sunfish either. The sunfish would never make it very long.

Can it be done, YES, can it be done successfully, YES, should it be done, IMO, No.

"I get sick inside seeing people mix fish from different continents in the same tank."

Hmm...

I wonder why? People are constantly mixing things up in nature, so why not in the fish tank? We've brought everything from invasive Gobies to the noble Brown Trout to the New World. Nature herself mixes fish, which is why Northern Pike, Atlantic Salmon and so many others are found naturally mingling with fish in different continents.

And what are continents, anyway? First, they are arbitrary political lines, not natural ones. Second, people around the world don't even agree on where the lines are, or even how many continents there are. In Brazil they teach children in school that America is a single continent, for example.

So I say, mix it on up. African cichlids and bluegills in the tank- who am I to judge what fish co-habitate? Now I'm not going to have that set up in my own living room, cause I'm not like that. But, hey, I say let 'em do it if they want to. It's America.

I did somewhat of an experiment as I was wondering the same thing. I have a 30 gallon tank that houses a 6" EBJD male and 4" female. I placed one of my 6" male Longears in with the pair and observed. Everything was just fine initially, with each of the fish mingling and generally checking each other out. The female EBJD, became very interested in the Longear and started sidling up to him. She had heretofore been submissive to the male EBJD, but as he began getting increasingly aggressive to the sunfish, she began running interference. She'd position herself between the two in an effort to "keep the peace". The EBJD male eventually became overly aggressive and began streaking across the tank to pounce on and peck at the sunfish. It became too much for the female to handle and eventually steered clear. This occurred over a period of time of about an hour. I realized that the situation didn't seem like it would likely improve, so I decided it was time to put the sunfish back in the friendly confines of his species tank.

I have many thoughts on this episode. First, I believe the primary compatibility issue had more to do with territorial issues than species. After all, the tank is 30 gallons and houses two rather large fish (for approx 2 years) with territorial behaviors. There's just not much extra room to share. I was actually surprised they were all amiable for the first 45 mins or so. I'm wondering if the female EBJD gave off any signals trying to keep the calm. I also wonder if the male EBJD felt threatened by this for fear he may lose his "mate" to the newcomer. (The EBJDs have never mated.) The sunfish never showed any aggression, but always stayed front and center and never cowered. Until the EBJD became incensed and very aggressive, I guess the sunfish felt comfortable in the protection of the EBJD female. It was an interesting experiment. I think if these fish were all brought up together, there would be no compatibility issues whatsoever.

It was an interesting experiment. I think if these fish were all brought up together, there would be no compatibility issues whatsoever.

I agree with you that a lot of the issues came from a new fish being placed into a tank that was already the established territory of an existing fish. I used to keep multiple male bettas in the same 55 gallon tank and house females and males together successfully and I learned that whatever bettas I wanted in the tank I had better add all at the same time, otherwise any newcomer would be treated as an invader and attacked. It's easy as humans to understand that; if some random dude moved into my living room and set up camp there I would be like, "wtf get out". Your electric blue jack dempsey was probably thinking something along those lines.

Edited by EricaWieser, 19 June 2012 - 11:21 PM.

I know of a case in which a 4" Rock Bass was added to a 120 containing Oscars and Parrots in the 6" to 8" range. I bought the whole set up shortly afterwards because the Rock Bass had killed or mangled all of his other fish.

I know of a case in which a 4" Rock Bass was added to a 120 containing Oscars and Parrots in the 6" to 8" range. I bought the whole set up shortly afterwards because the Rock Bass had killed or mangled all of his other fish.

My almost 4" Rock Bass thinks the whole bottom of the tank is his terroritory only and has no fear of the Bluegills, including one about 7". He used to "torpedo" attack any that ventured to close to the bottom. He's gotten a lot better about sharing it than he used to be but it still depends on his mood. He finally had to give up some bottom to the nesting bluegill and actually is a bit afraid of him. First time I've seen him nervous to be around a bluegill. lol

I agree with everyone above about introducing the cichlids and centrarchids into the tank at the same time,but I also believe from my own experience and reading about others experiences that it depends on the species of Centrarchid and Cichlid and the amount of space and decor that you have (I would never put a Midas or Jewel cichlid in with any type of Sunfish....but I and many others have had success with Oscars and Greens or Bluegills, and Ive read about people having success with convicts and Dollar sunfish, and Texas Cichlids and Redbreasted, of course in all of these setups they had them in large tanks or ponds).

I have a single sunfish in my african cichlid tank and there are no issues with any of the fish.

I have a single sunfish in my african cichlid tank and there are no issues with any of the fish.

Which sunfish species and which african cichlid species? How large is the tank, how many fish are in it, and in which order were the fish added?

Edited by EricaWieser, 27 July 2012 - 10:55 AM.

"I have a single sunfish in my african cichlid tank and there are no issues with any of the fish."

Which sunfish species and which african cichlid species? How large is the tank, how many fish are in it, and in which order were the fish added?

I am also really curious about this, and in addition to Erika's questions, what size is the sunfish relative to the African Cichlids? Are the African Cichlids from the African "great lakes" or elsewhere (some of the riverine species aren't so mean)? I have a hard time picturing even an adult sunny of most species putting up with those sharp-toothed meanies. Maybe a very BIG Green Sunfish with a much smaller mbuna... or perhaps shell-dwellers?

Sunfish is a wild caught blue gill
Africans are msobo, yellow lab, red zebras, acei, auratus, Leleupi, Malawi eye biter
Tank also holds asian upside down catfish, featherfin catfish.
125 gallon tank
Gotta be 30-40 fish
Africans were all in there and then the sunfish was added

msobos and labs are all the size of the sunny which is about 4-5 inches
zebras, eye biters, acei, and leleupi are only about 2.5 inches
auratus are 3 inches
asian cat is 6 inches feather fin about 5 inches

Ph is 7.8
Temp 78-79 degrees
Decor is usual stone african set up with sand bottom.

Edited by joefish72, 27 July 2012 - 04:34 PM.

Size of the Bluegill? How long have they been in there together? It sounds like a really cool tank, but I can't stop picturing the African Cichlids at least chomping an eye of his out or leaving him with torn fins (especially the zebras, I thought they were supposed to be particularly nasty).

Size of the Bluegill?

"sobos and labs are all the size of the sunny which is about 4-5 inches"
From joefish72's post.

Sunfish is a wild caught blue gill
Africans are msobo, yellow lab, red zebras, acei, auratus, Leleupi, Malawi eye biter
Tank also holds asian upside down catfish, featherfin catfish.
125 gallon tank
Gotta be 30-40 fish
Africans were all in there and then the sunfish was added

msobos and labs are all the size of the sunny which is about 4-5 inches
zebras, eye biters, acei, and leleupi are only about 2.5 inches
auratus are 3 inches
asian cat is 6 inches feather fin about 5 inches

Ph is 7.8
Temp 78-79 degrees
Decor is usual stone african set up with sand bottom.

With a big enough tank and enough fish and decor its possible.....how long has the Sunnie been in with the Cichlids?

Alex Scharnberg said, "I love my pet green sunfish, it lives in a 140 with many cichlids and does just fine"