Swampfish first spawn

I love the books info most of the time but I have found that alot of the info especially on sizes can be off.

Pat (NC)

My husband is a landscaper. He hears that all the time, "the book said that tree would be a 15 footer, and it's gotta be 25!"

"Well, the tree didn't read that book."

Genetics are hard to explain.

Regarding the stream, is it a seasonal drop? What's upstream from it? How many years have you noticed this?

We have a tiny little pond my husband built years ago that we keep goldfish in that's tucked up under some shrubs. The first year the fish made it all the way through winter then suddenly bellied up in early May. Matt thought about it and said, "you know, those Rhodie blooms are poisonous." And sure enough, if I forget to fish those fish out before the blooms drop, they die. You wouldn't think five little blossoms would do that much damage, but it's a small pond.

Is there an activity up (or possibily down) stream that coincides with the drop? Like, the books says it's time to fertilize the lawn so the entire community of HOAs gets the lawns fertilized? (I'm always looking for things to blame on lawns. It's pretty easy pickin's.)

Will your city test a water sample for you if you bring it in?

Well I dont know about needing salt water to reproduce, maybe they are grass shrimp. I always thought of them as ghost shrimp. What ever they are they sure don't mind the water they are in and are filling up with eggs and droping babies everywhere.

I am not sure what is causing the damage to the fish in the creek, but when it gets really low like it is now all of the fish seem to have something wrong with them. That is part of the reason when I post them for trade that I will have had them in my tanks for at least a week or more to make sure they are ok. However I recently found that not even that always helps, but thats another topic.

Some of the things that I have noticed since the water has dropped so bad
Damaged and torn fins (mainly the tail and dorsal fins)
Odd growths of fungus on them (mainly the mosquto fish)
Bloody spots mostly on the tail area but sometimes found on the sides as if the scales have been torn off

Rather skinny fish as if they are not eating well and this one comes with many questions
a. with so many shrimp and other crustaceans it looks like they should all be fat
b. why does this not affect the mudminnows or the small pirate perch they are all fat dumb and happy
c. if food is so low why didn't the fish move out with the food source as the waters dropped

I have a lot of questions about my creek that only time will be able to answer for me.

As far as the swampfish goes, I have been looking for him today and could not find him, I did run accross one of the bandeds in the tank but only saw one. I will look for him again when I turn the lights out tonight.
Any idea as to how big these guys actually get. I read in a book that they get up to 68mm (around 2.5in) long. Is this the actual size or do they get bigger or stay smaller. I love the books info most of the time but I have found that alot of the info especially on sizes can be off.

Pat (NC)

Maximum size? I reported it to be 2.7 inches in my 1994 book but most are much smaller since they rarely live beyond one year. Several years ago I published a study that I did in the late 1970s on a population in Croatan National Forest in eastern NC. I sampled weekly during the spawning season but did not find one individual incubating eggs. I speculated that they were laid in the vegetation. As it turns out that pirate perch do. I think that it will take a controlled study such as done with pirate perch to figure out what swampfish do. So the gauntlet has been thrown down to those skilled aquarists. Do it!

Fritz

I think that it will take a controlled study such as done with pirate perch to figure out what swampfish do. So the gauntlet has been thrown down to those skilled aquarists. Do it!

Fritz

what are the chances to get the state to support a study on these guys? if that would be of interest to the state who should I contact? would Chief Robert Curry be a good starting point or is there someone else that I should talk with?

I am by no means a certified biologist in means of the word biologist. However I would be interested in doing a study with someone that is and knows all the details that need to be kept track of.

Regarding the stream, is it a seasonal drop? What's upstream from it? How many years have you noticed this?

This drop in the water level is to be expected to some extent due to heat and natural evaporation, however the last two years have been much hotter and dryer than normal. The creek is feed from a rather large swamp that always has water in it but there are some places that will hold water and others that dry up. The creek is normally around 5 foot deep at the deepest point, but for the most part it is only about 2 foot or so deep. When the hot dry weather comes the shallower parts will dry up and lock pools up, the longer we go without rain the more it drys up.
The first year that I sampled this creek was the summer of 2006, then I built my house on the property and have been playing in it ever since. The summer of 2006 the creek never dried up to a point you could walk from one side to the other without getting your feet wet. Then 07 and this year both it dried up so much that not only could you walk across it, you could also build a sand box with the dried up sand from the middle of the creek.
The weather on the internet says that we should be getting some rain sometime in the comming week, hopefully this will change the water condition and help out the remaining fish.
If it gets low enough I will looking to get the bowfin and the gar that I keep seeing in there and moving them into a pond that is near by.


I was gone for part of the evening and when I got home, to my suprise the swampfish was out swimming around which I had not seen it doing before. The times I have seen it before it was just sitting there and not moving for anything, this time it was swimming about mid water level. A nice sight to see, I think it is really healing up to a point of checking out its new home.

I will keep all updated on my one lonely swampfish.

Pat (NC)

I would love to see detailed photos of locations where swampfish live. I've not been able to see that in person. If anyone has such photos, I'd be much obliged.

well some bad news for my little swampfish, I found him/her this morning in the clutches of one of the shrimp half eaten. Either it died and the shrimp found a taste morsel or they shrimp are just that aggresive that they chased it down and killed it. Probably the first thing happened rather than the latter but I just never saw it dead before it was dinner.

I will be on the look out hard for more of them, and when I catch another one I will try to photo the area of the creek where I got it, that is not to say that is the normal location it would be found considering the condition of the creek though.


Pat (NC)

Well, I guess a state-funded study of your swampfish is RIGHT OUT. My predictive skills must be slipping.

Well, I guess a state-funded study of your swampfish is RIGHT OUT. My predictive skills must be slipping.

Actually, fishkills are a popular state-funded study. I bet with a well written application, she could get all kinds of grants!

Sorry your little fella didn't make it. Better luck with the next one.

I bet with a well written application, she could get all kinds of grants!

I hope you were not refering to me being a she.
Last time I checked and acording to what the wife says I am still a he, and that is not a he/she there Irate.

If I were to try to do an application to get some funding to do the research I am sure I would be able to get some swampfish, not necessarly from my creek. I just am not a very good writter, just try and read some of my post. Please try not to cry from laughing to hard at them.

I hope you were not referring to me being a she.
Last time I checked and according to what the wife says I am still a he, and that is not a he/she there Irate.

If I were to try to do an application to get some funding to do the research I am sure I would be able to get some swampfish, not necessarily from my creek. I just am not a very good writer, just try and read some of my posts. Please try not to cry from laughing too hard at them.

Aaahhhhhhh!

This is so humiliating. (Well, not compared to most things I do.)

Nativecollector: he. Nativeplanter: she. Twice in one week the same foopa!
Okay, I got it. Cute dog : she. Cute dog: she. Cute dog: she. No cute dog: he.


I just I finally solved the age old SNL question about PAAAAAAAAAAAT!

Your writing is fine. Send me a rough draft and I'll edit it.

(Though some days, it's the blind leading the sighted on that one!)

Edited by mander, 04 July 2008 - 10:00 PM.

I just I finally solved the age old SNL question about PAAAAAAAAAAAT!

Really? I still haven't figured that out!

I'm glad to hear he's healing.

Why do you think torn fins and bloody spots have to do with poor water quality? Does poor water quality relate to aggressive behavior? Is it that the water is murky and they can't see well enough to avoid scraping into things?
PS I thought ghost shrimp needed to be in salty water to reproduce, or do I have it confused with another shrimp.

Mander- Inland ghost shrimp (Palaemonetes species) reproduce in freshwater. There are estuarine species as well. You may be thinking of longarm or river shrimp (Macrobrachium species), many of which are catadromous (like American eels), reproducing in SW and then migrating into freshwater.

Uland,

Are you still working with swampfish? Did you get any hatchlings?

Ed

Uland,

Are you still working with swampfish? Did you get any hatchlings?

Ed

Ed,

I'm afraid due to time and proximity/availability of swampfish, I'm no longer able to keep them.
I was also unsuccessful in having any fertile eggs.

I hope once I have more time, I can try this again.

I can say they did not prove difficult to keep alive and apparently healthy in a basement (cool since I live in the upper mid-west) with a sponge filter and heavily planted tank.

Uland,

Based on what you reported, I may attempt something similar to what you did but use a larger (maybe 1 square yard) tank that will only be about 6 inches deep.

Maybe your swampfish were like some of my pirate perch in that some males did not seem interested when females were ripe. Smaller number of males increased odds some of my females had nobody of quality to mate with resulting in about half the clutches I got being total duds. I also cheated and kept males and females separate until males started to get feisty.