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Breeding darters

Started by Guest_exasperatus2002_* , Aug 24 2012 08:44 AM

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9 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_exasperatus2002_*

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 08:44 AM

I'd like to try to breed my group (3:1) Etheostoma zonale. How much of a temperature drop & for how long, in order to breed them? Do you keep the male/female seperated during conditioning? What ratio would be best 1:1 or 2:1? Also at low temps do you still feed them? I was thinking of putting a tank out in the unheated attached garage during the winter. It gets cold but not freezing in there.

Edited by exasperatus2002, 24 August 2012 - 09:35 AM.

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#2 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 02:09 PM

This isn't what you asked but it's something to think about: I hope that you have a separate tank available to put the adults in after they've spawned. If you leave them in the same tank as their eggs it's very likely they'll eat the fry. They're not unusually cruel or monsters or anything; it's just that in the wild because they are spatially separated from their offspring soon after spawning, they never needed to learn the difference between a small wiggly food creature and their small wiggly offspring.

I used to keep my orange throat (Etheostoma spectabile) darters with swordtail fish (xiphophorus hellerii) and the swordtail colony went from around 9/10 or even 10/10 fry surviving to zero fry even seen after adding the darters. They are notorious fry eaters. The picture I have as my profile picture is of a female orange throat darter climbing way up high in the hornwort (ceratophyllum demersum) to hunt down and eat the swordtail fry.

I hope that didn't derail the topic too much. I'd imagine you'd need like a month of colder temperatures (50? 60 F?), that you don't want more males than females, that feedings are infrequent but still occur at low temps (feed them a piece; if they respond feed them more), and that there is no need to separate the male and females. But I was never very successful at spawning my darters. I only had one tank so I never saw fry. Hopefully someone who has spawned them successfully can answer the spawning trigger questions.

Edited by EricaWieser, 24 August 2012 - 02:18 PM.

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#3 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 24 August 2012 - 08:09 PM

I think "Ken" breeds several darter species including zonale if my memory is correct... I hope that he will speak up here... if he does not, try contacting him via the forum messenger thing...

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

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#4 Guest_Ken_*

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 03:03 PM

Sorry I didn't respond sooner. First of all realize my system is centrally filtered and I control the temperature, light cycles and flow rate. This is something you may not be able to do in a garage. I don't know if/how a major temperature fluxuations in a small volume of water may negatively affect darters. Someone else may be able to answer your question regarding keeping them in the garage better than myself. Anyway here are the parameters and ratios that have been working for me:

I will gradually start to lower temps and light cycles in the November timeframe, reversing the process in or around mid March. I get eventually drop the temps to high thirties- low forties and I drop my light cycle from fourteen to eight hours, keeping my fish there for their winter cycle. I have read that the length of time only needs to be a few weeks but I try to mimic the seasons as close as I can.
I don't seperate the sexes during this time frame due to a lack of space (which will be remedied in the near future) though I believe it would be advatagious to do so.
Regarding male to female ratio I try keep have a 1:2 as a min. and prefer 1:3 if possible. Males can drive females pretty hard plus I want to know which males my fry come from.
As they chill and their metabolisms slow down I do reduce the feedings to three times per week. And I cut the amount of food I give them through the rest of the year by about half depending on the variety of darter. They will let you know if they want more or not.

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#5 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 03:44 PM

The garage will do it. You need to keep your light cycle correct. I would reduce feeding because of lower metabolism during your cool down. Prior to cool down feed as much as possible, you want conditioned fish prior to over wintering. A higher female to male ratio would be correct. As Ken said a 1:3 is probably ideal.Brian Zimmerman is not darter specific, but has had great success breeding native fish, and may be a great resource along with Ken.

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#6 littlen

NANFA Member

Washington, D.C.

Posted 29 August 2012 - 07:33 AM

This is very intersting. Please keep the info flowing Ken/Brian. I finally hope to breed some darters this Spring as well. I'm going to try to get 1:3 of Redlines, Rainbows, Bandeds, and Snubnoses later this fall. Unfortunately, I do not have the ability to drop my temps any lower than ambient at this time, which is 70 at the coolest. Which of the listed species above would do better with only the photo period altered? Ken, what are the specs on your altered flow rates throughout the year? That is something I could manage to manipulate as well.

Thanks.

Nick L.

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#7 Guest_gerald_*

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 05:22 PM

IME (very limited) the darters most likely to breed in captivity without a winter chilling are probably those of the orangethroat and rainbow complexes. They are also some of the easiest to feed, adapting to freeze-dried and pellet foods better than most darters. Just guessing I'd say that spring-dwelling darter species should be good candidates too, since spring water temps don't vary as much seasonally.

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#8 Guest_exasperatus2002_*

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 11:08 PM

I'd love to increase the ratio but when I ordered by orange throats & banded darters, I was sent one female & 3 males of each species.Thanks for the info everyone.