Javascript Disabled Detected

You currently have javascript disabled. Several functions may not work. Please re-enable javascript to access full functionality.

Gold heterandria formosa

Started by Guest_EricaWieser_* , Nov 08 2012 08:59 PM

Next

Reply to this topic

44 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_EricaWieser_*

Guests

Posted 08 November 2012 - 08:59 PM

I'm so excited, my gold heterandria formosa arrived today! I got them from a vendor on aquabid.com. They're really small, about the size of a juvenile guppy. There are 13 or 14 or so of them.

Here's a picture:
Posted Image

http://gallery.nanfa...mosa 2.jpg.html

They're sorta stressed out right now from being shipped and adjusting to their new tank, so I don't want to harass them too much with the camera. I'll get a better picture later. That black spot is the base of the dorsal fin; his is scrunched close to his body.

I gave them grindal worms,which I don't think they really know what to do with and were a bit stressed out. About half of them ate the worms. Some of them also ate the crushed flake food I fed the tank an hour later. I've read that they're notorious fry eaters but I'm not too concerned about that. So are guppies, but the fry in the planted 55 gallon have a pretty high survival rate. The trick is keeping the parents super fat and too lazy to chase fry. But we'll see. When I kept darters with swordtails all of a sudden there were mysteriously no new babies... I think they just enjoyed killing

If that happens with the H. formosa I've got a tank separate from the guppies for them. But I hope they get along.

Edited by EricaWieser, 08 November 2012 - 09:00 PM.

#2 Guest_Usil_*

Guests

Posted 10 November 2012 - 10:46 AM

Good luck with the Killies. I find that when I get new fish I find the following:

Day 1: They are just coming out of stress. Mostly stay in the courner where I put them or run to hide nearby.

Day 2: They are starting to tentatively explore the aquarium. They notice the feeding time and activity and examine the food and try it but most spit it out not knowing what to make of it.

Day 3: More tank exploration with a little more acertiveness. Other fish take notice and do a half hearted dominance challenge which makes them define their part of the tank as safe. Feeding activity noticed again and again mouthing the food bits but not much is eaten.

Day 4: Adjusted to the tank and swimming most places. Stay clear enough to avoid dominance challenges and noting feeding time again with some food taken by some fish but not all.

Day 5: Adjusted to tank, and seem to stay in the group of fish that they entered with but that may be because they are of a similar size and the group is non threatening. Some are swimming outside of the group and entering other domains and feigning off any dominance challenges as just a matter of course. Many are joining feeding area at feeding time. Still mouthing food but some taken. After feeding frenzy they swim around and pick up small bits of food as I am sure they are getting pretty hungary.

Day 6: Pretty much adjusted to tank. Have established home areas but most freely explore the tank. I usually provide small cut bits of shrimp once a week and this is all fishes favorite meal. The regular fish love it and stuff themselves. Even the small ones eat so much that some is sticking out of their mouth an hour later. The new fish eat the smallest bits that float after the big bits are eaten. This definitely sparks their interest. Sometimes use cut bits of live earth worms. They love this too.

Day 6/7: The new fish are now joining the other fish and eat what is provided. Some like flakes more and some like other foods I add. Over time they learn to eat all the foods provided. This usually takes another 2 to 3 weeks. By then they are well established in their new home. They look forward also to the special feedings of small cut bits of shrimp or earthworms. If you want the small fish to grow rapidly the shrimp and earthworms seems to increase their size very quickly (noticable each week).

Usil

Edited by Usil, 10 November 2012 - 10:50 AM.

#3 Guest_EricaWieser_*

Guests

Posted 10 November 2012 - 05:56 PM

Oh, they're already adjusted to the tank and eating. They're the same size as juvenile guppies, so I think they feel safer because something their own size is swimming amongst the bigger fish (the adult guppies). A fish this size is actually a really good dither to stop adult guppies from eating their fry. I find that the first batch of guppy offspring is predated upon more than later batches. The presence of intermediate sized fry that can quickly dart away from their mouth reduces the number of snatches they make at the smaller fry that are more likely to not dart away fast enough.

#4 Guest_EricaWieser_*

Guests

Posted 10 November 2012 - 10:19 PM

Video:
Edit: hmm. Youtube's not uploading this right now. The third time was not the charm, so I'll try again later.

Edited by EricaWieser, 10 November 2012 - 11:11 PM.

#5 Guest_EricaWieser_*

Guests

Posted 11 November 2012 - 12:40 PM

Picture of them with a juvenile guppy:
Posted Image

http://gallery.nanfa... guppy.jpg.html

They're eating well.
No sign of guppy fry yet. If it gets to be January and I don't see any guppy fry, I'm putting the H. formosa in their own tank. I'm setting a deadline. The only way there wouldn't be fry by then is if they were getting eaten.

#6 Guest_EricaWieser_*

Guests

Posted 11 November 2012 - 08:02 PM

Confirmed presence on tiny babies. I count two or three. Not sure who they're from, but if they're still there tomorrow and next week I'll consider the tank still baby-safe even with the addition of these new fish.

#7 Guest_EricaWieser_*

Guests

Posted 15 November 2012 - 07:16 AM

No fry again. Something ate them.

#8 Guest_keepnatives_*

Guests

Posted 15 November 2012 - 07:47 PM

het babies are tiny and very good at hiding often you'll see a couple and then none but it you search well can often find several.

#9 Guest_EricaWieser_*

Guests

Posted 16 November 2012 - 10:18 PM

het babies are tiny and very good at hiding often you'll see a couple and then none but it you search well can often find several.

You're right, some definitely did survive. I'm not sure what's going on in that tank, but there still seems to be at least one representative for every age of development, so that's good. The H. formosa have plumped up quite a lot now (all fish get skinny during shipping). The males do a pretty threat display at one another with their bodies arched and their fins spread. I'll see if I can get a picture of it.

#10 Guest_EricaWieser_*

Guests

Posted 30 November 2012 - 07:45 PM

No sign of guppy fry yet. If it gets to be January and I don't see any guppy fry, I'm putting the H. formosa in their own tank. I'm setting a deadline. The only way there wouldn't be fry by then is if they were getting eaten.

Fry are definitely surviving in this tank. At first I didn't see any, but then everybody fattened up on the unlimited grindal worms I feed the tank every day, and now the parents are too full to want to eat their young. So I see fry. But what species are these? Would there be any particular reason why guppy fry would be surviving but Heterandria formosa fry wouldn't? I am confused why I'm not seeing both. Maybe after so long staring at Poecilia fry that's all I see. I've never seen an H. formosa fry.

#11 Guest_gzeiger_*

Guests

Posted 30 November 2012 - 09:14 PM

Yep, those all look like guppies. Heterandria fry are going to be significantly smaller, and may be getting eaten by smaller fish that can't handle grindal worms, may still be hiding from you, or may be too small to eat the offered food. Are you feeding crushed flakes also?

#12 Guest_EricaWieser_*

Guests

Posted 30 November 2012 - 09:22 PM

Are you feeding crushed flakes also?

Yes, and microworms and Ken's Golden Pearls.

#13 Guest_gerald_*

Guests

Posted 02 December 2012 - 06:40 PM

Newborn Heterandria look pretty much like their parents -- I don't think someone with an eye for detail like you will have any trouble distinguishing them from guppies. When I had Het's years ago they only dropped 1 or 2 fry at a time, not a whole litter like guppies and swordtails. P.S. - the Ricciocarpus is on its way, should arrive Mon or Tue.

Edited by gerald, 02 December 2012 - 06:41 PM.

#14 Guest_EricaWieser_*

Guests

Posted 03 December 2012 - 09:45 PM

P.S. - the Ricciocarpus is on its way, should arrive Mon or Tue.

It arrived just now!

Thank you, Gerald. If you would like anything in exchange for trade, let me know. I wrote down a whole list of things I could send you in the private message. These gold heterandria formosa are included; I've got multiple breeders.

For everyone else, here is a picture of the ricciocarpus natans from above.

Posted Image

http://gallery.nanfa...07_004.JPG.html

You can especially see why I was interested in it when viewing it from below; it's got more root area than duckweed does and provides more cover for fry.

Posted Image

http://gallery.nanfa...13_001.JPG.html

Still no Heterandria formosa fry, but the fish are at ease. The males are territorial. They're a bit like angry guppies, nipping at another male whenever he comes too close. But they do get along with the guppies themselves. They are very aware of the difference in species and I haven't observed any aggression or attraction displays at the guppies. The guppies are just ignored.

Here's a video. You can see one H. formosa male nip at another one right before the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGwHbKLtIJ0

Edited by EricaWieser, 03 December 2012 - 09:48 PM.

#15 Guest_gzeiger_*

Guests

Posted 03 December 2012 - 10:02 PM

I would never have thought to describe those as aggressive. A male formosa would lose a fight with an average mosquito larva!

Are you not concerned that those surface plants will outcompete the rooted ones? My experience is limited to watter lettuce, but the principle should be the same - the plant that has more access to CO2 and light will grow faster, blocking out light from those below and stripping nutrients from the water.

#16 Guest_EricaWieser_*

Guests

Posted 03 December 2012 - 10:19 PM

Are you not concerned that those surface plants will outcompete the rooted ones? My experience is limited to watter lettuce, but the principle should be the same - the plant that has more access to CO2 and light will grow faster, blocking out light from those below and stripping nutrients from the water.

No, I'm not too concerned. It's not a question of having R. natans the floating plant versus no floating plant; this R. natans is competing with duckweed. If I've got to have something float on the surface it might as well be fuzzy and help the fry. I can't get rid of the duckweed (short of buying aphids! I was about to!) so I might as well encourage a floating plant I like to compete with it.

I agree that floating plants and submerged plants are competitors. I do periodically thin out the floating plants and try to push them into a spot where there aren't any submerged plants underneath. I'll list this ricciocarpus natans on aquabid when it needs to be thinned out so more people can have access to this native plant. Currently the only way for your average person to get it is to find it in the wild (which is hard. I live in its native range and couldn't find it).

Along with keeping the floating plants thinned out, I also should mention that my lights are crazy bright. There are 2750 lumens of full spectrum light per bulb and four bulbs on top of the tank. I used to get the most ridiculous algae growth from leaving all four bulbs on for too long. Currently they're on a timer so I can limit them. If the submerged plants start to have problems I can increase the time the overhead lights are on by a few hours a day.

Edited by EricaWieser, 03 December 2012 - 10:20 PM.

#17 Guest_Irate Mormon_*

Guests

Posted 08 December 2012 - 12:08 AM

Day 8:They all died!

#18 Guest_EricaWieser_*

Guests

Posted 11 December 2012 - 06:29 PM

Day 8:They all died!

lol, no they're still alive.

The adult heterandria formosa are doing very well. But it's weird; although I count dozens of guppy fry I'm not seeing a single heterandria formosa fry. I'm not sure why the one species of fry would be able to survive and the other wouldn't.

#19 Guest_gzeiger_*

Guests

Posted 11 December 2012 - 07:10 PM

Guppy fry could eat formosa fry more or less from birth?

#20 Guest_EricaWieser_*

Guests

Posted 11 December 2012 - 07:49 PM

Guppy fry could eat formosa fry more or less from birth?

Not unless the H. formosa fry are the size of microworms.

Yeah, I don't understand what's going on. The guppy parents aren't even attempting to eat fry; the fry swim freely around them with no snatch-attempts by the adult guppies. The heterandria formosa also don't appear to be attempting to eat fry. Usually there's a dramatic chase sequence when a fry swims near a fry-eating fish, and one observes less fry in the tank. But there are dozens of guppy fry, and in the past few days I have only observed one dramatic chase scene starring a juvenile guppy who was pregnant for the first time. (she's probably experiencing some unusual hungers) Her chase of the fry was unsuccessful and she gave up when I fed her more grindal worms. So I don't get it. The guppy fry are at all levels of the tank. Some are in the plants, some are at the surface, some are in the open. Wherever the H. formosa fry are hanging out, these guppy fry have got to be there too, protecting them with their slightly larger size. Hmm. I'm going to keep watching the tank. There will be H. formosa fry if I have anything to say about it. *harrumph*