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Great time in Athens, GA


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#1 mattknepley

mattknepley
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  • Smack-dab between the Savannah and the Saluda.

Posted 05 February 2013 - 05:23 PM

I have really been enjoying getting back into natives and the people of NANFA. A real treat has been getting to know people on-line, and the biggest kick so far is receiving an invitation from Michael Wolfe offering to take me and my daughters on a collecting trip in the Athens, GA area.

We showed up at Michael's house on a bright, clear, windy Super Bowl afternoon. I follow college ball, but not the pros, and had forgotten until right before our visit that it was Super Bowl weekend. When I contacted Michael to ask if our visit would interfere with any football oriented plans he might have, his response was, "No way. It's simple math. Fish > gridiron!" So after church the girls and I loaded up and made the relatively short trip to Athens from Greenwood, SC. The girls and I had fun on the way, and Erin was especially taken with how pretty Elbert County, GA is. The only unpleasantry on the sortie was the severe sticker shock I got at the gas pump. Gas is a good 20 - 25 cents more expensive per gallon in Georgia than South Carolina!

At any rate, Kerry, age 10, Erin, age 6, and I, age withheld, made it to Michael's and were immediately met by our host, as well as by fellow NANFAN Keith Hudgins. Michael and Keith got me and the girls squared away and in no time we were at our first stop, a tiny stream called Bear Creek. Happily, we were sheltered from the wind and were quickly in the water. We worked a small pool and some tiny rapids to much success. There was no shortage of yellowfin shiners hiding under a run-off prevention tarp which had, ironically, managed to run off and become a fixture in the stream. Michael and Keith instructed me in the fine art of doing the darter shuffle. Although I was a poor student, Keith and I managed to shuffle up one pale turquoise darter, several unidentified salamanders, one nasty looking water bug, several small crayfish, and a mud puppy! The yellowfins were beginning to color up for the breeding season, and were pretty. But even though we were after fish, the mud puppy was the most interesting catch at Bear Creek. I had never seen one before, and even though it was only a couple inches long, I found it fascinating. My girls did, too. Not that they had too much time to watch it. Michael kept them busy and involved, giving them important jobs like carrying the backpack containing the photo tank and toting other gear.

Next it was off to a stream very close to Michael's house. This one was a little larger than the last, but still on the small side. Its rapid/riffle sections were larger though, and Keith and I employed our best darter dancing. We were rewarded with several turquoise darters in the seine. These individuals were much more colored up than the Bear Creek specimen. I was amazed, as were the girls. We had never seen turquoise darters before, and these guys were beautiful! Despite Michael and Keith's assertions that they would continue to add color over the next couple weeks, I couldn't imagine them being any more gorgeous. The blue that adorns the males at breeding time most closely resembles turquoise, but in all honesty it was a blue I had never, ever seen before. It's a color you just have to see for yourself to truly comprehend; no matter how well I could describe it, it wouldn't mean anything if you haven't seen it. We managed to take some decent pictures, but even they don't do this fish justice. After oohing and aahing over the darters, we moved downstream to a pool where we seined up several small sunfish and tadpoles. Erin was beside herself when she dipnetted a salamander all on her own!

By now we were running late on time and headed to our last stop, on the much bigger, faster water of the Apalachee River. Keith had been assuring me the whole trip that he would officially sanction our visit by taking a dunking in the water. I had begun to think he was exaggerating his lack of luck/agility, until he plopped down in the swift water. Fortunately, it wasn't serious and we laughed our way into seining. Michael and I would also officially sanction this stop, although I was lucky enough to keep water out of my waders and have no witnesses! While the girls watched from a bouldery perch near shore, we men worked our seining magic. We were rewarded with blackbanded darters, and a snail bullhead. Both were very interesting and beautiful, but the biggest prize was turning up the endangered, Georgia-endemic, Altamaha Shiner. Michael has a collector's permit, which enabled us to photograph this catch. It was definitely a cyprinella in build, and its fabulous silver scales were catching and incorporating the purple of the late afternoon sky into its display. Such a pretty fish! Soon it was into the water for the shiner, and we were off looking for jumprocks for Michael. None turned up, though. We made a short ford up the river, toting the girls and gear. While perhaps not our smartest move, it put us in some slack water for fishing. Despite my pathetic seining (I seine almost as well as I darter shuffle) we managed a small bluegill and some smaller sunfish.

Evening came too soon. Kerry, Erin, and I enjoyed a tour of Micheal's fish room, received some plants for my tank back home, and said our goodbyes. I had thought maybe we'd keep a few specimens, but didn't. But that's ok, I doubt I'll ever forget those beautiful fish, the Georgia water, or my two new friends. I can't wait to get out on the water again, and look forward to being able to collect with Keith and Michael in the future!Altamaha Shiner, Apalachee River, GA.JPG Erin, Apalachee River, GA 2013.JPG Matty, Erin, Keith, Apalachee River.JPG mudpuppy, Bear Creek, Athens, GA area.JPG P2030165.JPG P2030166.JPG P2030179.JPG Turquoise Darter, Apalachee River, GA.JPG

photos by either Matt or Michael

Post script: The species taken that day included yellowfin shiner, bluehead chub, creek chub, turquoise darter, blackbanded darter, snail bullhead, Altamaha shiner, bluegill, mudpuppy, and others Michael and Keith will have to remember for me...

Attached Images

  • Yellowfin Shiner, Apalachee River, GA.JPG

Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."

#2 Guest_fundulus_*

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 05:55 PM

It sounds like a fun trip. I'm also impressed by carrying a small child while wading in waders through fairly high, fast water.

#3 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 05:58 PM

I don't want to ruin the party, but the salamander may not be a mudpuppy. Juvenile mudpuppy's have a very strong line down their backs which ends in an arrow shaped mark on their heads. So unless this salamander was over 3 inches my guess is you have something else. The legs are also pretty well developed for a mudpuppy. I have seen quite a few juveniles, and I am guessing this is something else. https://www.google.c...s.shtml;350;285

#4 Guest_fundulus_*

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 06:18 PM

I was wondering too. Here's a decent photo of a mudpuppy from another angle, which looks pretty similar to Matt's photo above.

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#5 mattknepley

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 06:20 PM

Takes more than that to ruin a collecting party, Matt! I'll have to bone up on my Cuadates and see what I can find out. I could only think of the various mudpuppies as having the exposed gills. It won't ruin my day if that's not what he turns out to be. He's/she's still a really, really neat creature. "A rose by any other name" and all that.
Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."

#6 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 06:27 PM

All larval salamanders have gills. Few retain them. I am not an expert here by any means, but it is worth looking at. I am guessing that it is Ambystoma.

#7 mattknepley

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 07:42 PM

I'll check that out and see what I can find. What is the determining point for a salamander to have moved from the larval to the adult stage? I was figuring since it had all four legs it was adult. But then some anurans still have a tail while they have all four legs...
Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."

#8 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 07:53 PM

Gosh, I am not the right guy to answer that, but for many salamanders, they lose their gills as they become terrestrial. Or at least partially terrestrial. Very few retain their gills as adults, Mudpuppys, blind cave, axolotyl, which all remain aquatic.

#9 Michael Wolfe

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 10:19 PM

I partially to blame. I jumped t othe mudpuppy conclusion becasue this guy was different that the other half dozen of salamaders (which I am used to seeing in streams around here) that dont have external gills showing. This is the only one around here that I have ever seen with external gills and he was not any smaller than all the others we saw that had no external gills. Now I know that is not at all diagnostic, but it was just eh firs tthing that popped to mind in the field. I will have to grab my sally book when I am back home and take a closer look.

And while Matt is a good NANFAn, his daughters were well behaved, inquisitive, and polite. And they were light weight to carry through the rapids.
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

#10 mattknepley

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 06:38 AM

Found a reliable looking site for salamander enthusiasts, caudata.org. Most of their forum is locked to nonmembers, so I signed up and will shop our (Michael's) photo around to them to see what their members think. I've checked a few books & sites and have gotten nowhere. This creature's location doesn't seem to line up with the distribution maps for dwarf mudpuppy, and I don't know where to divide a larval salamander from adult, so I agree with the notion I can't call this thing a mudpuppy (or anything else) yet. Since this is a native fishes forum I'll hold off any further salamander posts until I think there's an id, unless of course others are interested in pursuing this issue...

Many thanks to Michael for his invitation. His enthusiasm, knowledge, patience, generosity and interest in youngsters made this day an absolute blast. It was easy for me and the girls to look good, given those circumstances. Maybe next time I can convince him to carry ME through the fast water! :rolleyes:
Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."

#11 Guest_Dustin_*

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 08:30 AM

Matt, you have a different species of mudpuppy up your way, right? This is what we typically see here for punctatus. WHile I am no salamander expert either, I will side with Michael on this one.

#12 Guest_Dustin_*

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 08:32 AM

Sounds like you guys had a good time. Hopefully, we can get you guys out in your native state soon. If you think turquoise darters are nice, wait until you see Christmas and Savannah(disclaimer: both of which also occur in GA).

#13 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 09:20 AM

Dustin, I bet you guys are right. I think of mudpuppy as the common mudpuppy. I was not considering the rest of the genus.

#14 mattknepley

mattknepley
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Posted 06 February 2013 - 09:54 AM

I had no idea there were three types of mudpuppy either, Skipjack. Love learning new stuff!

Dustin, from the looks of Amphibians & Reptiles of the Carolinas and Virginia, there isn't any type of mudpuppy up here in Greenwood County, but it does mention that punctatus lives in the Altamaha drainage of Georgia, of which that little stream is part. SREL's distribution map doesn't make it look as if punctatus, or any other mudpuppy gets that far upstream, but the write-up is pretty similar to our animal. http://srelherp.uga....ders/necpun.htm As for getting me out in SC, I'm game! I would love to see those Savannahs. The girls and I broke in my waders on a quick trip to Beaverdam Creek, just outside of Edgefield. I had seen a writeup in the forum about a trip made there ten years ago, and was curious to see if things had changed. We found bluehead chubs and Christmas darters. Those Christmases were some pretty, too. We brought two males and a female home. That was two weeks ago. The boys have continued to color up a little bit (The green parts anyway. The red has gone orange brown) which surprised me. I would love to see what the fellas in the real water are looking like.

And if anybody is still looking for a reason to get up into the SC mountains, I might suggest enlightening this half-back as to the mountain aquatic fauna of his adopted state would be a most noble cause!
Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."

#15 Guest_UncleWillie_*

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 10:35 AM

Glad yall had fun near the Classic City. I was out of town that weekend and barely made it back in town for kickoff. I hate that I missed a good trip, but glad you got in the water around Athens. I am by no means up to par on my salamander ID skills, but a friend of mine (herp guy at UGA) has photographed similar larval salamanders around the Athens area a month or so back. It's hard to tell from your picture, but it looks similar to the very robust larval stage of the mud salamander Pseudotriton montana that can be found in small streams around here. With your permission, I can forward this picture along to him if you'd like.

#16 mattknepley

mattknepley
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Posted 06 February 2013 - 10:42 AM

That'd be great, Uncle Willie, but better wait for Michael to chime in. That's his picture. Hopefully we all make the next Athens area trip!
Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."

#17 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 12:01 PM

I had no idea there were three types of mudpuppy either, Skipjack. Love learning new stuff!


Probably a common mistake, considering the common names for the rest contain "waterdog"

Also I imagine that larval salamanders are quite difficult to ID, the only reason that I thought I stood a chance on this is that our mudpuppy juveniles are so distinct.

#18 Guest_IsaacSzabo_*

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 03:34 PM

Nice writeup and photos. Sounds like it was a fun trip. You're lucky to live close to a number of active and experienced NANFA members.

#19 mattknepley

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 03:56 PM

Thanks, Isaac. It was fun, and yes, I would agree that I am lucky.
Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."

#20 Michael Wolfe

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  • North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 06 February 2013 - 04:26 PM

Don't wait on me. My photos are free to all. Get us an answer Uncle!
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin



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