I was wondering if anyone could help me with a problem I'm having. I have a 175g tank right now that i set up to put native fish in. I have a few darter species, some rainbows, stippled, orange throats, and banded darters. I also have various other minnow and dace species that I have collected in streams near me. I feed them usually bloodworms or scuds and other food that they will find naturally. During feeding time however it is nearly impossible for food to get to the darters without the swarm of minnows and dace attacking it. I was just curious if anyone had any tips or tricks to help me out. Like i said I try to get the bloodworms to their level there are just a bunch of faster mouths out there.
Feeding darters
Started by
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, Feb 10 2013 05:30 PM
21 replies to this topic
#2
Guest_EricaWieser_*
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Posted 10 February 2013 - 05:52 PM
What happens if you keep feeding the tank more and more food? Do the shiners give up eventually? I'm just curious.
Something that might help is a feeding tube. You distract the shiners with something near the top of the tank, and drop something that sinks down a tube so it reaches the bottom near the darters.
In my own tanks personally I just kept feeding them until the swimming fish were full and gave up. If you're having problems with cost, a grated up unbreaded frozen cocktail shrimp is inexpensive, as are home-bred grindal worms.
Something that might help is a feeding tube. You distract the shiners with something near the top of the tank, and drop something that sinks down a tube so it reaches the bottom near the darters.
In my own tanks personally I just kept feeding them until the swimming fish were full and gave up. If you're having problems with cost, a grated up unbreaded frozen cocktail shrimp is inexpensive, as are home-bred grindal worms.
Edited by EricaWieser, 10 February 2013 - 05:53 PM.
#3
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Posted 10 February 2013 - 05:58 PM
I usually put food on the top of one side to distract them then I take bloodworms and put them down to the darters on the other side. The thing is they recognize now when I'm doing that and as soon as I stick them in the water they come swimming over. They usually keep eating as long as their is food but I try not to overfeed them a lot.
#4
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Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:50 PM
You could suck up food for the darters in a turkey baster and shoot it towards the bottom with the current. It might not totally fool the shiners, etc., but at least some of it gets to the bottom pronto.
#5
Guest_Usil_*
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Posted 10 February 2013 - 08:22 PM
I feed the fish that stay near the top and middle of the tank first. This activity gets the darters bunching under them. During the feeding I have already set aside a cube of freeze dried tubifex worms on a long pointy stick in the water to hydrate. Then when I am finished feeding the upper fish I bring the cube to the front and bottom near the darters. They immediately attack it. I have squeezed frozen bits out of a small tube at the bottom with equal success. Some of the upper fish do head to the cube but they don't prevent the darters from feeding. The trick is no matter what you feed them you have to get it to their level. All my darters are nice and fat. I see eggs in the females already.
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Edited by Usil, 10 February 2013 - 08:23 PM.
#6
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Posted 10 February 2013 - 09:37 PM
I feed my community minnow/ Darter tank (johnny darters and Fathead minnows mainly) the fatheads are really agressive and i feed them flake food and frozen blood worms, usually the food is so spread out that the darters eat quite well. maybe try adding a block of thawed blood worms.
#7
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Posted 10 February 2013 - 10:05 PM
I guess I think of overfeeding differently. I see it as a problem if there's uneaten food leftover in the aquarium to rot. But if the fish are still hungry and want to eat more food, I'll feed them. My aquarium has live plants growing in it so the nitrogenous waste from all the food the fish eat is no problem. The growing plants utilize the nitrogen in their new stems and leaves, cleaning the tank by removing nitrogen from the water. *nods* So, yeah, I just keep adding food to the tank bit by bit until finally one of the pieces of food goes uneaten.They usually keep eating as long as their is food but I try not to overfeed them a lot.
Edited by EricaWieser, 10 February 2013 - 10:08 PM.
#8
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 10 February 2013 - 10:05 PM
Erica, no shiners do not give up, I have seen them eat until bloated and then still eat.
I normally feed them flakes first... its cheap and I can feed them a lot and it stays on the surface... and they like getting their food up there anyway... shiners hit the surface of streams for food anyway. And the activity certainly brings the darters out to see what is going on...
Then you can either use the tube, or turkey baster or I thaw the frozen food in about 4 oz of tap water and then just dump that in which sort of drives the food to the bottom, and gets it in the darters range pretty quickly.
I normally feed them flakes first... its cheap and I can feed them a lot and it stays on the surface... and they like getting their food up there anyway... shiners hit the surface of streams for food anyway. And the activity certainly brings the darters out to see what is going on...
Then you can either use the tube, or turkey baster or I thaw the frozen food in about 4 oz of tap water and then just dump that in which sort of drives the food to the bottom, and gets it in the darters range pretty quickly.
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#9
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Posted 10 February 2013 - 11:27 PM
Wow, that's kind of intense. I had swordtails with my darters so I didn't know that about shiners. Swordtails aren't as gung-ho.Erica, no shiners do not give up, I have seen them eat until bloated and then still eat.
#10
mattknepley
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Posted 11 February 2013 - 07:45 AM
My experience and approach are similar to those above.
I have a 55 gallon with three Christmas darters and half a dozen greenfin shiners. The shiners are very enthusiastic feeders. I can back up what Michael says about their gluttony. They will eat, if allowed, until their bellies are grossly distended. Then they'll regurgitate a bunch and eat it again. (I saw this twice when I switched frozen bloodworm brands and dumped in more than I realized would be there.) I make sure the darters get their chow by placing a small amount of thawed bloodworms or brine shrimp on the tip of a bamboo bbq skewer, and placing that in the outflow of my HOB filter. That pushes the chow down to the darters quickly and gives it a semblance of being "live", which seems to activate the darties. The shiners do snag much of what is intended for the darters, but no darter is going hungry and I can keep greater control of the amount fed.
I also have one swamp darter in a community tropical tank ( lfs rescue) and he associates me with food to the point that he actively begs. The fish in that tank aren't all that fast, so he makes it to the top of the 40 gallon and nabs his flakes there.
Obviously, my tanks are much smaller than yours so the food is less prone to getting "lost". Maybe if your darters are as interested in food as mine are, the turkey baster mentioned above would be able to put the food right in front of them, helping to concentrate food where it's easiest for them to find it and also reduce the time the minnows might have to hone in on the dartie chow.
I have a 55 gallon with three Christmas darters and half a dozen greenfin shiners. The shiners are very enthusiastic feeders. I can back up what Michael says about their gluttony. They will eat, if allowed, until their bellies are grossly distended. Then they'll regurgitate a bunch and eat it again. (I saw this twice when I switched frozen bloodworm brands and dumped in more than I realized would be there.) I make sure the darters get their chow by placing a small amount of thawed bloodworms or brine shrimp on the tip of a bamboo bbq skewer, and placing that in the outflow of my HOB filter. That pushes the chow down to the darters quickly and gives it a semblance of being "live", which seems to activate the darties. The shiners do snag much of what is intended for the darters, but no darter is going hungry and I can keep greater control of the amount fed.
I also have one swamp darter in a community tropical tank ( lfs rescue) and he associates me with food to the point that he actively begs. The fish in that tank aren't all that fast, so he makes it to the top of the 40 gallon and nabs his flakes there.
Obviously, my tanks are much smaller than yours so the food is less prone to getting "lost". Maybe if your darters are as interested in food as mine are, the turkey baster mentioned above would be able to put the food right in front of them, helping to concentrate food where it's easiest for them to find it and also reduce the time the minnows might have to hone in on the dartie chow.
Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."
#11
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Posted 11 February 2013 - 08:59 AM
in my 55 gallon to make sure my 3 darter species get to eat, I feed flake to my dace and fatheads wait for the gorge & then feed my other foods to the darters. So far its worked for the past year.
#12
Guest_jblaylock_*
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Posted 11 February 2013 - 02:11 PM
I 2nd or 3rd....or whatever feeding flakes first on the top and using a turkey baster to get the bloodworms to the bottom.
#13
Guest_Kanus_*
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Posted 11 February 2013 - 02:21 PM
I do the same. With the exception that instead of a turkey baster, I use a feeding syringe with a 2 foot length of rigid airline tubing shoved into the tip. Something you guys may wanna try if you have a deep tank 
#14
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Posted 11 February 2013 - 05:49 PM
I've given up trying to keep darters (or suckers) with "bottomless-pit" minnows like Cyprinella, Clinostomus, Nocomis, Luxilus, and larger Notropis -- I just cant feed 2-3x a day like they need to keep the darters plump. However, Phoxinus, Pteronotropis and some of the slack-water or small-mouthed Notropis (procne, maculatus, cummingsae) seem to have a "full" indicator that the others lack, and those species I can keep OK with darters.
#15
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Posted 11 February 2013 - 08:06 PM
I've often kept mixes of shiners, dace and darters. Always feed large amounts of dry and freeze dried first and right behind live and or frozen directed to the darters by a turkey baster as otheres have mentioned. I also made a point to add as often as possible a large amount of live black worms by using the turkey baster to input them right into the sand and gravel many are able to survive the initial feeding frenzy to be hunted throughout the days following. I once had a whole corner of a 55 gallon community tank piled with fist size rocks with an hob power filter flowing down over it and a submersible powerhead inside the rock maze I'd turkey baster bunches of frozen and live foods into the rock pile and over it through the hob outflow which worked very well. The blacknose dace figured it out pretty quickly but with all the twists and turns the darters were able to get a fair share.
Another smaller tank had less aggressive darters with several large female guppies to provide some occassional random live food hunting for the darters but the guppies would eat a tremendous amount of black worms until I started keeping the turkey baster in the tank and blasting short bursts at any encroaching guppy marauders after a while they mostly stayed on the other side of the tank. Worked but time consuming.
Another smaller tank had less aggressive darters with several large female guppies to provide some occassional random live food hunting for the darters but the guppies would eat a tremendous amount of black worms until I started keeping the turkey baster in the tank and blasting short bursts at any encroaching guppy marauders after a while they mostly stayed on the other side of the tank. Worked but time consuming.
Edited by keepnatives, 11 February 2013 - 08:07 PM.
#16
Guest_Skipjack_*
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Posted 11 February 2013 - 08:40 PM
Many darters eat snails. Shiners don't seem interested.
#17
Guest_steve_*
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Posted 13 February 2013 - 06:04 AM
I also start with a cheaper food(pellets, flakes or such) to get everyones attention. The darters take notice of what's going on and then I dump in enough thawed blood worms and mysis shrimp to overwhelm the whole group of eager mouths furthur up in the water column. The darters seem to always be able to get enough. I've been doing this for several years without issues. I've also had a hogsucker in this tank since September and all seems to be well with it too.
#18
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 13 February 2013 - 11:35 AM
STEVE!
Good to hear you are doing well with your hogsucker. I think I remember that fish. 6 months is not a total indicator of hogsucker health, but so far so good. I think with "abundance feeding" you have a good chance to heep him going. When you can say that he has actually grown a half inch or so, then you are really having success. I would recommend some simple things like Wardley Shrimp Pellets as a fast sinking, meaty food that the shiners sort of ignore and the sucker (well at least the jumprock in my case) learns to try... and if he doesnt, it breaks down and then he will get it as he is sifting sand (assuming your substrate is sand).
Good to hear you are doing well with your hogsucker. I think I remember that fish. 6 months is not a total indicator of hogsucker health, but so far so good. I think with "abundance feeding" you have a good chance to heep him going. When you can say that he has actually grown a half inch or so, then you are really having success. I would recommend some simple things like Wardley Shrimp Pellets as a fast sinking, meaty food that the shiners sort of ignore and the sucker (well at least the jumprock in my case) learns to try... and if he doesnt, it breaks down and then he will get it as he is sifting sand (assuming your substrate is sand).
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#19
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Posted 13 February 2013 - 04:11 PM
Thanks Michael, Your memory is right on. You're the one who talked me into keeping that fish. It might just be my imagination but it seems like I've seen the slightest amount of growth in him already. I've been trying not to "count my chickens before they hatch", but like you said, "so far so good". I've been trying to feed a good variety in that tank also and I'm seeing a lot of it make it to the bottom. Sometimes I actually see the hogsucker get excited at feeding time. I hope that means he's healthy and not an indicator that he's going hungry.
Yep, deep sand substrate covering a few inches of top soil and a literal jungle growing out the top of the tank.
ps. Thanks again for talking me into keeping him. He may not be the most colorful fish in the tank, but he's definitely the cutest.
Yep, deep sand substrate covering a few inches of top soil and a literal jungle growing out the top of the tank.
ps. Thanks again for talking me into keeping him. He may not be the most colorful fish in the tank, but he's definitely the cutest.
#20
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 13 February 2013 - 04:56 PM
I'm not going to "thread-jack" any more (well not after this... and it is sort of related to feeding darers... feeding other benthic eaters), but I think they do learn that you are the feeding guy and they do "taste" the food in the water... I eventually saw my jumprock pick frozen mysis out of the water column... never waited for it to get down on the sand... make sure you keep some sandy bottom open if you can, they love to sift that sand.
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
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