3 fish: Redear Pumpkinseed and Hybrid?

Fish 1 - I think it is a red ear. Caught in small city lake which is connected to the salt river in Arizona
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 fish1b.jpg   122.92KB   2 downloads


Fish 2 - I think it is a pumpkinseed. Caught in small city lake which is connected to the salt river in Arizona
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 fish2b.jpg   140.27KB   1 downloads
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Fish 3 - Now here is a wierd one. Caught in a very small city pond which has a huge variety pet fish that have been dumped in it. Not sure if the city stocks it, it isn't listed with the city website whether they stock it or not. At first I figured it was a bluegill, but it only has 4 major stripes instead of the typical 5. The body is really tall compared to regular bluegill. Also the mouth looks like it points more like a redear. Guessing redear - bluegill hybrid? I dunno. What do you guys think?
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 fish3b.jpg   168.82KB   1 downloads
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Redear in the first several pics? Yes.

Pumpkinseed in the next several pics? Yes.

Hybrid in the next several pics? No -- I vote for straight-ahead bluegill, with the dorsal spot and everything.

And in Arizona, all three are exotic species, so they're not so different from the cichlids, etc., that have been dumped. Oh well.

I'm going to jump in to agree with Bruce on this one. I'm especially confident that fish number two is a pumpkinseed. Beautiful fish.

Redear, pumpkinseed, and bluegill

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Made a comparison photo -- the top is Fish #3 in question, and the bottom is a garden variety bluegill with all the typical traits.

- the center of the stripe seems darker
- the stripes don't go that far down on the body
- the mouth looks more pointed

Thanks
Shorty

The head and mouth do not look like any bluegill that I have ever seen.

I would say a stunted bluegill

It's a bluegill.

The first fish is a redear the second is a pumpkinseed and the third is a bluegill. Bluegill look quite a bit different depending on where the stock is from, the Florida bluegill are actually considered a different subspecies much like Florida largemouth and do have different coloration. This bluegill looks to be from a more northern stock and looks like bluegill I have here in Ohio.

The first fish is a redear the second is a pumpkinseed and the third is a bluegill. Bluegill look quite a bit different depending on where the stock is from, the Florida bluegill are actually considered a different subspecies much like Florida largemouth and do have different coloration. This bluegill looks to be from a more northern stock and looks like bluegill I have here in Ohio.

Thats interesting -- any chance you have pictures of the various regional varieties?

Thanks
Shorty

I am prety sure there are only two recognized forms, the FloridaLepomis macrochirus mystacalis and northern bluegillLepomis macrochirus macrochirus. I'm not sure where the dividing line would be but my guess is it is somewhere in Georgia and may go westward toward the Mississippi river through Alabama and Mississippi but this is just a guess. Does anyone know if there is any paper or book that documents the range of the two subspecies?

Anyways here is a couple pics of the florida subspecies...




the main differences I saw were the bars are more distinct and maybe fewer of them on the florida, also they have redish unpaired fins with a light whiteish outline to them.

the main differences I saw were the bars are more distinct and maybe fewer of them on the florida, also they have redish unpaired fins with a light whiteish outline to them.

Those bottom two photos nail it right on the head, so to speak. Same mouth and bars, just what I was pondering over. You really know your sunfish!

Thanks!
Shorty

I am prety sure there are only two recognized forms, the FloridaLepomis macrochirus mystacalis and northern bluegillLepomis macrochirus macrochirus. I'm not sure where the dividing line would be but my guess is it is somewhere in Georgia and may go westward toward the Mississippi river through Alabama and Mississippi but this is just a guess. Does anyone know if there is any paper or book that documents the range of the two subspecies?

Anyways here is a couple pics of the florida subspecies...




the main differences I saw were the bars are more distinct and maybe fewer of them on the florida, also they have redish unpaired fins with a light whiteish outline to them.

I have collected in past for bluegill in the area between the Mobile and the Suwannee rivers. Northern bluegill native to Mobile with coppernose (range includes but not restricted to Florida) stocked on top based on animals we have in trial now (sad to see that because northern their look different from notherns of upper Mississippi River drainage). Going east, centered on lower Apalachicola drainage you get into the unrecognized handpaint bluegill while upstream either same taxon changes naturally to something else or stocking has disrupted what occured previously. Going further east you get into the coppernose blugill of the Suwannee river system.

The bluegill at start of thread does not look typical of any bluegill I have collected from feild. Head shape mentioned previously is odd. Owing to location of capture and my limited knowledge of stocking efforts, the fish in hand is in my opinion likely to be a composite of nothern and coppernose bluegills. As we are getting into third generation of trials involving crosses of different bluegill stocks, we are starting to see stuff that looks quite different from anything we saw in populations where we collected original stocks. Bluegill shown maybe result of similar but less controlled natural experiment.

I need glasses so excuse spelling.