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What are these guys?

Started by mattknepley , Feb 18 2013 04:57 PM

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39 replies to this topic

#1 mattknepley

NANFA Member

Smack-dab between the Savannah and the Saluda.

Posted 18 February 2013 - 04:57 PM

Hit a local stream today for an hour or so today. Only turned up a few fish, but I was trying to kick seine by myself, using a dipnet instead of a seine. At any rate, these are the fishes. They were all photographed on the stream and released. The stream is small, with sections of riffles, runs, and pools over mostly rocks and some sandy substrate, with collections of fallen leaves. It's located in Greenwood County in the western part of SC. I am sure these are all common fish, but my id skills are uncommonly bad. So thanks for the help, and be kind! :biggrin:

I'll venture that the darter is a tessellated. The sucker type looks like a northern hogsucker, but my guides say they don't live this far south in SC.

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Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."

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#2 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 05:16 PM

Creek chub, Hogsucker, T. darter. Best guesses from a northerner.

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#3 Guest_sbtgrfan_*

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 05:52 PM

I would have guessed Bluehead Chub for the first one. Possibly Creek Chub I suppose. My ID skills are not anywhere close to perfect and I know they can be difficult to distinguish as juveniles. Did you happen to notice if it had a black spot at the base of the dorsal?

Northern Hogsuckers are found in the area, from what I've seen around the upstate, very plentiful in the Savannah Drainage and that does appear to be one.

I'd guess Tessie as well on the Darter.

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#4 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 18 February 2013 - 05:56 PM

First fish looks more Bluehead Chub to me too Stephen (much more of a Nocomis mouth and the stripe down the side is lacking the bright gold above that I usually see (but not always) with Creek chub juveniles.

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

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#5 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 06:01 PM

I would have guessed Bluehead Chub for the first one. Possibly Creek Chub I suppose. My ID skills are not anywhere close to perfect and I know they can be difficult to distinguish as juveniles. Did you happen to notice if it had a black spot at the base of the dorsal?

Northern Hogsuckers are found in the area, from what I've seen around the upstate, very plentiful in the Savannah Drainage and that does appear to be one.

I'd guess Tessie as well on the Darter.

I would take your word on it. We do not have blueheads up here, though we have other Nocomis, and sad to say, I often ID them on the size of the waterway.

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#6 Guest_fritz_*

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 06:29 PM

Yes,bluehead chub, northern hog sucker and tessellated darter. Go online, spend a few bucks and buy the totally awesome Freshwater Fishes of South Carolina. Unbiased view of course.

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#7 mattknepley

NANFA Member

Smack-dab between the Savannah and the Saluda.

Posted 18 February 2013 - 08:38 PM

Thanks, guys. I guess my id-ing skills might have upgraded to from "awful" to "suspect". Don't recall if I saw a black spot or not, Stephen. But I have since hit the lfs for a critter keeper to use as a photo tank. Hopefully that will lead to better pictures next time. I might just have to take your unbiased advice, Fritz. :tongue:

Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."

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#8 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 18 February 2013 - 08:45 PM

Yes,bluehead chub, northern hog sucker and tessellated darter. Go online, spend a few bucks and buy the totally awesome Freshwater Fishes of South Carolina. Unbiased view of course.

I don't know if we should consider this the "post of the week" or if we should start using the Warning Points System after all!

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

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#9 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 09:11 PM

I don't know if we should consider this the "post of the week" or if we should start using the Warning Points System after all!

Crap, I used it today already. Now that I am in the groove, Fritz is dusted!

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#10 Guest_fritz_*

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 01:06 PM

Modesty is not one of my few virtues :biggrin:

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#11 mattknepley

NANFA Member

Smack-dab between the Savannah and the Saluda.

Posted 12 March 2013 - 10:20 AM

More id questions from the same spot on the same stream, one month later.

I'm thinking the larger cyprinidae is another immature bluehead chub. The smaller one I think may be a creek chub- no black spot on the dorsal, but there is that red one. Is that red spot diagnostic of any particular fish? I see in Fritz's book that the creek chub has a red spot behind the diagnostic black one. Do they grow into a black spot after the red one? There were several of these fish.

Sorry about the poor photos. Also, right now I'm doing everything with a dipnet. If anybody wants to get together to seine a nondescript stream for run-of-the-mill, nuttin' special fish, let me know. I have included a picture of this collecting site on Brightman's Creek, Greenwood, SC. (Santee drainage)

Lastly, can anybody verify that the mollusks are Asian clams? And what is that grubby looking thing?

Matt

PS- Fritz's book is as good as the unbiased review he gave it. I am really enjoying it, and it has proven useful in the short time I have owned it.

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Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."

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#12 mattknepley

NANFA Member

Smack-dab between the Savannah and the Saluda.

Posted 12 March 2013 - 10:23 AM

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Sorry, forgot to add this picture with the others. These are the mollusks in question.

Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."

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#13 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 10:53 AM

They do look like corbicula, yes. But I'm no expert.

Edited by EricaWieser, 12 March 2013 - 10:53 AM.

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#14 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 12 March 2013 - 11:11 AM

Yes the bigger ones are Bluebeard chubs. I am looking on my phone, so not a big screen, but the others look like yellowfin shiners. The red you are seeing is the beginning of the find coloring up for spring. The head/face shape looks a lot more pointed and Notropis looking, not bullet shaped like a creek chub.

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

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#15 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 12 March 2013 - 11:12 AM

Oh and that means you have a fantastic little very special stream that most Yankees would kill for. Love you local drainage. Hyper-local natives rule!

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

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#16 mattknepley

NANFA Member

Smack-dab between the Savannah and the Saluda.

Posted 12 March 2013 - 12:14 PM

Thanks, Erica. I'm pretty sure that's what they are, but, as in your disclaimer, I'm no expert either.

I wondered about some of those minnows maybe being yellowfins, Michael. I didn't mention it though, because N. lutipinnis is maybe not supposed to be in the Santee drainage. A yellowfin lookalike, the greenhead, N. chlorocephalus, is but it's breeding coloration has white fins. Fritz relates that there is currently some debate over just what is and isn't a yellowfin and/or greenhead, and that some think there could be some hybridizing going on. Wonder what he thinks they are...

Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."

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#17 mattknepley

NANFA Member

Smack-dab between the Savannah and the Saluda.

Posted 12 March 2013 - 12:21 PM

Oh and that means you have a fantastic little very special stream that most Yankees would kill for. Love you local drainage. Hyper-local natives rule!

I'll print that up and give it to it for its next therapy session. It is actually a much healthier crick, at least at that location, than I expected. In addition to fish it hosts lots of amphibians, the occasional reptile and leech, several aquatic insects, those weird sluggy-lookin' things, and crayfish out the wazoo. Considering the bridge at that site is apparently a favored spot for locals to dispose of metals (paintball guns, headboard, shop cabinet) and alcohol bottles I wasn't holding out much hope for it initially. Glad I guessed wrong!

Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."

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#18 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 12 March 2013 - 01:00 PM

OK, home now and looking closer... the first fish is probably a creek chub and so is the out of focus one in the background...

But the one on the side of the tank in the bluehead photo and the last one is definintely a Notropis... although I was afraid you were going to say that about greenheads... so maybe they are... that is not one that we are likely to solve with just a photo... but he is your local Hydrophlox

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

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#19 Guest_swampfish_*

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 01:32 PM

The "weird sluggy-lookin' things" are crane fly larvae. They have star-shaped posterior appendages surrounding their spiracles (air openings), which show well in the underwater shot. Crane fly larvae are very common in polluted streams but are also found in smaller numbers in debris areas of darter riffles. Adult crane flies look like giant mosquitoes one to two inches long with very long, spindly legs. The adults feed on flower nectar; the larvae are scavengers.

Phil Nixon
Entomologist

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#20 Guest_Kanus_*

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 01:42 PM

I will second all the IDs. Looks like Nocomis sp., Notropis lutichlorowhateverthehecktheycallem (looks like a yellowfin to me though, nothing like the greenheads I have seen) and Corbicula. Your grubby looking thing is a larval Tipulid Fly (aka cranefly or mosquitohawk). Aren't they attractive?

Not sure if you have both bluehead and river chubs in that drainage, but on the Atlantic slope where they both occur, they are pretty easy to tell the difference if you look at the breast. Bluegrass have a mostly or fully scaled while river chubs are mostly or fully naked. Handy tip I learned last summer.