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What are these guys?

Started by mattknepley , Feb 18 2013 04:57 PM

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39 replies to this topic

#21 Guest_sbtgrfan_*

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 02:23 PM

I agree with above IDs on the fish with one question for Michael...What makes you say creek chub for the smaller one? Just curious as I'm finding it hard to tell.
The yellowfins I'm used to in the upstate Savannah drainage have the red fins, so they are easy to ID. I'm just guessing here, but I'd venture to say that's a greenhead (just because I want to be different!

). No specific evidence other than location & range maps. As you said, there's definitely a debate about these two.

Also, right now I'm doing everything with a dipnet. If anybody wants to get together to seine a nondescript stream for run-of-the-mill, nuttin' special fish, let me know.

I'm almost always game to get out and play in some creeks/streams. I'm currently in school at Clemson, but I frequent the Columbia/Lexington area often and Greenwood is not completely out of the way, so I'd be happy to get out with you sometime. We should get all the SC guys together soon too.

Edited by sbtgrfan, 12 March 2013 - 02:24 PM.

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#22 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 12 March 2013 - 02:56 PM

Chubbier body shape, rounded bullet shaped nose, and then the hint of red at the anterior base of the dorsal (more visible on the out of focus fish in the back). And then (and this is a little subjective) the chubs have a thinner or non-noticeable golden line above the black line on the side of their body... the yellowfins have a brighter more noticeable lime yellow green line above the black line.

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

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#23 mattknepley

NANFA Member

Smack-dab between the Savannah and the Saluda.

Posted 12 March 2013 - 02:57 PM

So it's settled; it's a Notropis lutichlorowhateverthehecktheycallem. We don't have river chubs in this drainage Derek, but those are the handy type of tips that are useful in the field. It'd still be useful to pin down an id for a bluehead in the field.

Thanks for the id on the crane fly larvae, Phil. I would have never guessed it was a crane fly. Somehow my parents knew what those were when I was a kid, so we were never allowed to kill them. The adults anyway. I don't ever recall seeing one of those larvae before. I think your comment on their preferred habitats could prove useful in the field, too. Moderate crane fly uglies + riffles may equal darters.

Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."

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#24 mattknepley

NANFA Member

Smack-dab between the Savannah and the Saluda.

Posted 12 March 2013 - 03:17 PM

Stephen, I'm game anytime family and work don't have dibs. Fair warning, though; I'll be wearing my WVU hat. :biggrin:

I'm leaning toward greenhead, for what my opinion's worth. I'm glad you all are thinking it's a Notropis of some ilk. I have had that suspicion for a couple trips now, but didn't have any photos worth posting and didn't trust myself even if I did.

Didn't see any northern hogsuckers this time. Wonder if there's seasonal changes in populations going on. Saw fewer salamander larvae as well. (These ones are about the same size as the one we saw in GA, Michael, but have a different color, tail shape, and only 4 toes on the back feet.) Saw fewer little crayfish, but many big ones that were nowhere to be seen in February.

Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."

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#25 Guest_Kanus_*

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 03:28 PM

Michael is calling them Bluebeard chubs and I am calling them Bluegrass chubs. This era of autocorrect is going to have us rethinking our common names...guess we need to add "bluehead" to our dictionary...

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#26 mattknepley

NANFA Member

Smack-dab between the Savannah and the Saluda.

Posted 12 March 2013 - 03:31 PM

Michael is calling them Bluebeard chubs and I am calling them Bluegrass chubs. This era of autocorrect is going to have us rethinking our common names...guess we need to add "bluehead" to our dictionary...

I caught that, the mental picture of both bluebeard and bluegrass chubs was kinda funny. Maybe if I ever learn to use a phone smarter than a rotary I'll have that problem, too...

Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."

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#27 Guest_Kanus_*

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 04:02 PM

If that helps any, that is a Notropis chlorocephalus from the Catawba drainage. These guys have a very diffuse dark stripe, white fins, and I think a more blunt face than what you've got there. Hopefully that helps.

Edited by Kanus, 12 March 2013 - 04:03 PM.

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#28 Guest_sbtgrfan_*

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 04:21 PM

Chubbier body shape, rounded bullet shaped nose, and then the hint of red at the anterior base of the dorsal (more visible on the out of focus fish in the back). And then (and this is a little subjective) the chubs have a thinner or non-noticeable golden line above the black line on the side of their body... the yellowfins have a brighter more noticeable lime yellow green line above the black line.

Makes sense. I was thinking either creek chub or bluehead for the first small one, I knew it wasn't yellowfin. Hard to tell, and it could be my eyes or the distortion of the container corner, but it seems like it has more of a subterminal mouth, which I thought indicates bluehead. But I definitely see your reasoning.

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#29 Guest_gerald_*

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 05:09 PM

I agree pic # 2 is a little creek chub, with orange blotch at the front base of dorsal fin.
In older fish the blotch gets dark, but it starts as a little orange blotch on juveniles.
The Santee basin Hydrophlox (yellowfin-greenhead complex) are quite variable - fins can be red, orange, yellow, or white.

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#30 Guest_fundulus_*

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 05:30 PM

Allow me to say that those clams are definitely Corbicula, I'm not sure which of the two species.

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#31 mattknepley

NANFA Member

Smack-dab between the Savannah and the Saluda.

Posted 12 March 2013 - 05:41 PM

You're plenty allowed, fundulus. That's why I asked! O:)

Derek, I agree, that N. chlorocephalus doesn't bear much resemblance to the fish in my pictures. And thanks to Gerald for clarifying the dorsal fin spot colors on the Creek chub for me. I really appreciate everybody's interest and input. Since N. lutichlorowhatevertheycallthems don't appear listed, I might just have to add a few to my growing SC natives collection and grow 'em out.

Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."

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#32 Guest_fritz_*

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 06:06 PM

Molly Cashner has been working on the lut/chloro mess for some time and hopefully will be publishing soon. In order to get the book finished sooner than later (only took 15 years) I took the easy route and separated the two by drainages knowing she was working on it.

and thanks Matt for helping me with my retirement fund.

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#33 mattknepley

NANFA Member

Smack-dab between the Savannah and the Saluda.

Posted 12 March 2013 - 06:25 PM

Molly Cashner has been working on the lut/chloro mess for some time and hopefully will be publishing soon. In order to get the book finished sooner than later (only took 15 years) I took the easy route and separated the two by drainages knowing she was working on it.

and thanks Matt for helping me with my retirement fund.

Can't wait to see what she comes up with.

No problem, Fritz. I meant what I said, it is a great book, especially for those of us in the Palmetto State. All the contributors are to be commended!

Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."

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#34 Guest_davidjh2_*

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 01:25 PM

I'm no help at identifying any of these fish but feel free to post some pictures of a few of the crayfish

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#35 mattknepley

NANFA Member

Smack-dab between the Savannah and the Saluda.

Posted 13 March 2013 - 03:54 PM

P2210302.JPG 144.24KB 2 downloads

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I'm no help at identifying any of these fish but feel free to post some pictures of a few of the crayfish

Happy to do so! I'm guessing Cambarus latimanus for at least some of the small ones. I don't know how big those buggers get though.

Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."

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#36 Guest_gerald_*

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 08:20 PM

the salamander is most likely a southern two-lined.

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#37 Guest_davidjh2_*

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 10:06 PM

I'll take 3 lol. I really want to get down south for some sampling one day. The number of different crayfish species in the southern states is incredible.

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#38 mattknepley

NANFA Member

Smack-dab between the Savannah and the Saluda.

Posted 14 March 2013 - 10:12 AM

Thought about that salamander maybe being a 2 or 3 lined, but I only count 4 toes on the back feet. I'm pretty sure those guys have five. I'm guessing spring salamander, Gyrinophilus porphyriticus, based on what I see in Martof & Co.'s Amphibians and Reptiles of the Carolinas and Virginia. I might just see what the people on caudata.org think...

David, if you're ever in my corner of SC I'd be happy to help you chase after some crayfish. I wasn't quite correct in my timing statement from above. Looking back, there were a couple large crayfish found, such as the ones above, but only a couple. There were tons of little ones. Now, halfway through March, the big ones are turning up in large numbers, while the smaller ones are noticeably fewer. (Cannibalism?)

Who do you guys think those crayfish are? Same species, two different ones?

Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."

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#39 Guest_davidjh2_*

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 02:26 PM

The first and last 3(the same crayfish?) look like Cambarus. The other ones might be Orconnectes or Procambarus. My favorite crayfish tend to be Cambarus and the larger Orconnectes.

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#40 mattknepley

NANFA Member

Smack-dab between the Savannah and the Saluda.

Posted 14 March 2013 - 05:14 PM

The first and last 3(the same crayfish?) look like Cambarus. The other ones might be Orconnectes or Procambarus. My favorite crayfish tend to be Cambarus and the larger Orconnectes.

The last three are probably the same crayfish. The first one was one of the only big crayfish captured last month. That one little guy was doing something in the substrate with his back exposed, just like in the picture. Never saw one do that before. Something (me) scared it off before I could get a better photo. Those big ones are pretty cool looking animals.

Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."