I was wondering if anyone had any experience modifying hang-on-back filters for larger tanks? Some of these tanks tend to have thicker bracing (whatever it's called) on top and that recessed, protruding bit for glass tops, etc. which make filters like my aquaclear 70 not fit so well. I can get it to function, but it's not a pretty sight. I'm running one of these alongside an older Fluval 304 canister filter on my 75g and have been considering cutting into it to make it fit, as I don't want to cut into the tank itself obviously. I really like this setup as opposed to, say, buying some other HOB or adding another canister filter. My fish seem to like the littler overflow too. The gap to hang it from the tank is only about 1/8th of an inch too small, so if I move it to the back, I'll have to move my light 4 or 5" forward and that's just awful looking and inconvenient.
Any experiences?
Worse comes to worse, does anyone know of any decent HOB filters that actually fit larger tanks? I need about a 2" clearance, ideally.
Modifying HOB filters for larger tanks
Started by
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, Mar 31 2013 12:14 PM
9 replies to this topic
#2
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Posted 31 March 2013 - 12:41 PM
I had the same problem with the hang on back filter for my 75 gallon fry tank. I made a custom background that was about an inch thick and the filter didn't fit on the back after it was installed. Worse, I couldn't put it on the side of the tank because the fry tank sits within a stand and the filter doesn't fit in between the posts on the side. I ended up just finally cutting a few inches away from the background to give the filter some room. But yeah, I'm not sure what you would do if the filter didn't fit on the tank rim itself. You don't want to cut stuff away without knowing which part is necessary for structural support.
You said you also have a canister filter. You can consider that your filter and then just add a powerhead for flow. The way to test if the canister filter is providing enough surface area for the maximum number of bacteria to colonize the tank is to test the water for ammonia and nitrate. If ammonia is 0 ppm (not 0.5, 0) and nitrate is above 0 ppm (for example 20 ppm), then the canister is sufficiently converting ammonia to nitrite to nitrate in the tank. You can test this by taking the hang-on-back and stick it on another tank for a few days, then measuring the ammonia and nitrate in the big tank. If ammonia stays at 0 ppm after removal of the hang-on-back, then the canister is all you need. At that point, add powerheads for water flow with no worries. Then follow the normal water change schedule, performing a water change whenever nitrate hits 30 ppm.
Powerheads are super cheap. You can find 1300 GPH powerheads for 2 for $25 on ebay. Example: http://www.ebay.com/...=item3cc6b0dfb0
This is useful info because large tanks are expensive to get water flow in if you just go with local pet store powerheads, which often only go up to 900 GPH and can cost $50 each. But powerheads are cheap online so you don't have to worry about the filter being the only source of current in the tank. I run a single one of those 1300 GPH powerheads in my 75 gallon tank and it's very effective at pushing around all of the water in the tank.
If you dislike canister filters because they need to be taken apart and cleaned every now and then, here is an alternative that filters large tanks but never needs to be taken apart and cleaned because detritus doesn't build up in it: http://www.lifegarda...idizedbedUG.pdf They're $70 on thatfishplacethatpetplace and they're rated for 300 gallon tanks.
Personally my tanks are all plant filtered. See Table 2: http://www.theaquari...ical_Filtration
There are other alternatives.I really like this setup as opposed to, say, buying some other HOB or adding another canister filter. My fish seem to like the littler overflow too.
You said you also have a canister filter. You can consider that your filter and then just add a powerhead for flow. The way to test if the canister filter is providing enough surface area for the maximum number of bacteria to colonize the tank is to test the water for ammonia and nitrate. If ammonia is 0 ppm (not 0.5, 0) and nitrate is above 0 ppm (for example 20 ppm), then the canister is sufficiently converting ammonia to nitrite to nitrate in the tank. You can test this by taking the hang-on-back and stick it on another tank for a few days, then measuring the ammonia and nitrate in the big tank. If ammonia stays at 0 ppm after removal of the hang-on-back, then the canister is all you need. At that point, add powerheads for water flow with no worries. Then follow the normal water change schedule, performing a water change whenever nitrate hits 30 ppm.
Powerheads are super cheap. You can find 1300 GPH powerheads for 2 for $25 on ebay. Example: http://www.ebay.com/...=item3cc6b0dfb0
This is useful info because large tanks are expensive to get water flow in if you just go with local pet store powerheads, which often only go up to 900 GPH and can cost $50 each. But powerheads are cheap online so you don't have to worry about the filter being the only source of current in the tank. I run a single one of those 1300 GPH powerheads in my 75 gallon tank and it's very effective at pushing around all of the water in the tank.
If you dislike canister filters because they need to be taken apart and cleaned every now and then, here is an alternative that filters large tanks but never needs to be taken apart and cleaned because detritus doesn't build up in it: http://www.lifegarda...idizedbedUG.pdf They're $70 on thatfishplacethatpetplace and they're rated for 300 gallon tanks.
Personally my tanks are all plant filtered. See Table 2: http://www.theaquari...ical_Filtration
Edited by EricaWieser, 31 March 2013 - 01:08 PM.
#3
Guest_keepnatives_*
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Posted 31 March 2013 - 12:42 PM
I've just used a band saw blade and made small cuts in the tank plastic rim every 1/8 inch a few times then used needle nose pliers to break off a few pieces so I could use the bandsaw blade to cut a longer strip to fit the filter on. Just have to determine where you want your filter.
#4
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 31 March 2013 - 02:26 PM
I agree with Mike, it is actually easy to do and does not significantly reduce the strength of the frame. As long as you know where you want the filter, you are good to go.
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#5
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Posted 01 April 2013 - 07:54 PM
Thanks for the thoughts guys. I like having both a canister and an HOB for my larger tanks for no other reason than that it is psychologically pleasing to me haha
I prefer canisters, actually, but sometimes the fish get antsy without the waterfall effect of the HOB and, of course, with a HOB on a couple tanks, I can cycle new tanks incredibly fast especially if I use sand from the beds of my favorite brook. I don't know if that's a good idea, but I've been doing it forever and it hasn't caused any obvious issues - plus I can get all sorts of interesting creatures coming out of the sand after a few hours/days.
I ended up taking my hacksaw and cutting part of the HOB away so that it sits lower on the tank rim. The problem was that with the canopy installed, the water would have just landed on TOP of the glass, instead of going under it. Not good. I didn't even bother trying it. Without the uptake, it fit better, but with the uptake, it sat about 2 inches too high give or take a bit and warped the filter box slightly so that the top didn't even fit on. It's not perfect now, but since I don't want to cut into the tank rim, even though I'm sure it's fine, I just ripped into the filter. It's still not the prettiest, but until I can afford any alternative it's pretty decent.
I would surely be more daring with the tank itself if I didn't live on the second floor, in an apartment above a business with a very vocal and obnoxious tenant. My landlord stopped by today for the first time in 4 years and though he didn't mention a thing, he kept looking at the tanks with a combination of appreciation and apprehension. I don't blame him. Heck, I don't even know what kind of joists this floor has. I have a 20g on my kitchen counter full of shiners and I noticed a cabinet door that I always have open requires me to push down on it to shut it fully now... *innocent whistle*
Erica - do you know of any decent, cheap testing kits? You seem to have a massive quantity of fish-related links at your disposal. I have to ashamedly admit I've been winging it since my first tanks cycled and only test once in a blue moon. I've been lucky, thus far...
I prefer canisters, actually, but sometimes the fish get antsy without the waterfall effect of the HOB and, of course, with a HOB on a couple tanks, I can cycle new tanks incredibly fast especially if I use sand from the beds of my favorite brook. I don't know if that's a good idea, but I've been doing it forever and it hasn't caused any obvious issues - plus I can get all sorts of interesting creatures coming out of the sand after a few hours/days.
I ended up taking my hacksaw and cutting part of the HOB away so that it sits lower on the tank rim. The problem was that with the canopy installed, the water would have just landed on TOP of the glass, instead of going under it. Not good. I didn't even bother trying it. Without the uptake, it fit better, but with the uptake, it sat about 2 inches too high give or take a bit and warped the filter box slightly so that the top didn't even fit on. It's not perfect now, but since I don't want to cut into the tank rim, even though I'm sure it's fine, I just ripped into the filter. It's still not the prettiest, but until I can afford any alternative it's pretty decent.
I would surely be more daring with the tank itself if I didn't live on the second floor, in an apartment above a business with a very vocal and obnoxious tenant. My landlord stopped by today for the first time in 4 years and though he didn't mention a thing, he kept looking at the tanks with a combination of appreciation and apprehension. I don't blame him. Heck, I don't even know what kind of joists this floor has. I have a 20g on my kitchen counter full of shiners and I noticed a cabinet door that I always have open requires me to push down on it to shut it fully now... *innocent whistle*
Erica - do you know of any decent, cheap testing kits? You seem to have a massive quantity of fish-related links at your disposal. I have to ashamedly admit I've been winging it since my first tanks cycled and only test once in a blue moon. I've been lucky, thus far...
Edited by distincthead, 01 April 2013 - 07:56 PM.
#6
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Posted 01 April 2013 - 08:39 PM
Honestly I use the $7 test strips sold at my local pet store that get like six tests on one strip. Jungle Labs 6-in-1, it says. There are a variety of them along the same vein. Buying it from a local Pet Supplies Plus saves you from having to pay shipping. Get one that tests for ammonia, nitrate, and then anything else they feel like throwing in. Ammonia and nitrate are the only two I absolutely insist on. Ammonia of greater than zero means your tank's not cycled. Nitrate of exactly zero either means you've got a planted (starving) tank or your tank's not cycled. Having a new tank and not being able to test for both is not a good idea. Older established tanks still need those tests, too though, because cycles can be destroyed. For example, if you accidentally forget to dechlorinate the incoming water change water. Or if your city switches from chlorine to chloramine without telling you. Or a fish dies and you don't have any live plants in your tank. Whoops, you have ammonia. It's good to be able to test for that sort of thing the first day you see signs of disease.Erica - do you know of any decent, cheap testing kits? You seem to have a massive quantity of fish-related links at your disposal. I have to ashamedly admit I've been winging it since my first tanks cycled and only test once in a blue moon. I've been lucky, thus far...
Some people argue that the the $20 and up drop tests that titrate a color are more accurate, and they would be correct in their argument. I did actually start with one of those, years ago. What happened? After a while it crystalized near the cap and I couldn't trust it any more. So one year after buying it I needed to buy another one. For a college student whose every $20 mattered, that hurt. Now I just buy those cheap-o multi test strips that are $7 for everything all in one.
Every test kit regardless of how awesome it starts out initially does eventually expire. It turns out that a super fancy, super accurate $20 test kit two years after buying it isn't nearly as accurate as a brand new $7 test kit. I'd rather use the cheaper multi test kits and have a brand new kit right now when I need one and know it works. It's no stress to pitch something that originally cost $7 and replace it with a new one. Tip: Write the date you buy it on the bottle with a sharpie. If you pick it up one day and it's more than a year after that sharpie date (or after the expiration date, if there is one on the bottle), pitch the test kit and get a new one. Inaccurate test results are very frustrating. It makes diagnosing what's wrong very difficult. For example if ammonia is really 5 ppm, and fish are dying left and right, and the test kit reads zero? Well. I would be upset.
Edit: Oh, also, you can find out if your test kit is working or needs to be replaced pretty simply. Just know what's in your tap water, and then test it with the old test kit. If you know your water is 0 ppm ammonia and it reads 5, it's time to get a new kit.
Edited by EricaWieser, 01 April 2013 - 08:45 PM.
#7
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Posted 01 April 2013 - 08:47 PM
lol! I'm pulling the same stunt right now too. I live in a second floor apartment that it stuffed to the brim with animals but somehow the apartment complex doesn't count anything that's not a dog or a cat as a 'pet', so they don't care. I took that neglectful oversight and used it to stack two 75 gallon tanks one on top of another and filled it with saltwater. So far so good, and I'm not breaking any rules. We're all going to ignore how the angle of the water at the top of the tank is slowly changing. shhhh...I would surely be more daring with the tank itself if I didn't live on the second floor, in an apartment above a business with a very vocal and obnoxious tenant. My landlord stopped by today for the first time in 4 years and though he didn't mention a thing, he kept looking at the tanks with a combination of appreciation and apprehension. I don't blame him. Heck, I don't even know what kind of joists this floor has. I have a 20g on my kitchen counter full of shiners and I noticed a cabinet door that I always have open requires me to push down on it to shut it fully now... *innocent whistle*
#8
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Posted 02 April 2013 - 01:30 PM
lol! I'm pulling the same stunt right now too. I live in a second floor apartment that it stuffed to the brim with animals but somehow the apartment complex doesn't count anything that's not a dog or a cat as a 'pet', so they don't care. I took that neglectful oversight and used it to stack two 75 gallon tanks one on top of another and filled it with saltwater. So far so good, and I'm not breaking any rules. We're all going to ignore how the angle of the water at the top of the tank is slowly changing. shhhh...
Oh my, and you aren't worried? I live in a commercial building, the lower floor of which is made of brick and block and I still fret about my single 75 in the arguably strongest corner of the apartment. I've got 1,200 sq. ft. and I only have five tanks, the other four of which don't really matter because they are less than 20g. I'd love a second 75g somewhere, honestly. My shiners are growing far larger than I originally thought, and they are likely Goldens, and thus require my only big tank. Grrrrr...
Anyhow, I use those cheap-o test kits when I feel I need to, perhaps once a month or so. I'm just so bloody broke that the 10 bucks they cost here in good ol' CT is something I'd rather spend on flake or freeze-dried food, new gizmos for the tanks, etc. Perhaps I should stop shaving down my ancient air stone and get a new one. Although, I did find a decent synthetic, dense sponge that doesn't appear to be toxic and makes a great substitute. Yay poverty!
Anyhow, using my somewhat irresponsible eyeballing method, I just overly rely on lots of plants and somewhat eduacted guesses on water changes. As I'm becoming more and more obsessed I've realized I need a more reliable method of testing water quality, among other things. My biggest issue ATM is that I have a 20g with 6 shiners in it that wont stop producing green water and various algae even though it's in the darkest, most gloomy part of my apartment and the light timer (which is set for only 8 hours/day) is hooked up to a measly 60 watt equiv household CFL. Perhaps it's the spectrum of the light? Improper setup of the tank 3 years ago? Who knows. All of my other tanks, including two which are directly next to the 20g are beautifully clear and low maintenance. Though I must add that that specific 20g is the only tank I've ever had to medicate, and I used a formalin based product...
As an aside, can I just put those 6 shiners into the 75g and A) not worry about them damaging my dace and fatheads as well as B) not worrying about them adapting? They are all on the same tap water, food and have mostly the same plants. That 20g produces more Java Fern than I could imagine and it has become more of a plant breeding ground than an aquarium. What a shame the shiners don't like to eat the algae. The only time I've ever had the water clear is when I went on vacation for a week w/out feeding them or having the water changed. I suspect something silly like my local city water has a high amt of phosphorus or something because the green water is at it's worse the more diligent I am with water changes. They use chloramine FWIW.
Edited by distincthead, 02 April 2013 - 01:34 PM.
#9
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Posted 02 April 2013 - 04:26 PM
My biggest issue ATM is that I have a 20g with 6 shiners in it that wont stop producing green water and various algae even though it's in the darkest, most gloomy part of my apartment and the light timer (which is set for only 8 hours/day) is hooked up to a measly 60 watt equiv household CFL. Perhaps it's the spectrum of the light?
I will vouch for that being a distinct possibillity. I have a 75 gallon with 300W of metal halide lighting on it for my plants. I have scarely been able to see more than 4 inches into the tank for the past two or three months, despite water changes and anything else I could think of to remedy the situation. Then I realized I had a similar issue 2-3 years ago and replacing my bulbs fixed it. Sure enough I did the same thing and a week later the tank was crystal clear (of course my plants were a huge dying mess after being choked out for light for so long)
#10
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Posted 02 April 2013 - 06:49 PM
I will vouch for that being a distinct possibillity. I have a 75 gallon with 300W of metal halide lighting on it for my plants. I have scarely been able to see more than 4 inches into the tank for the past two or three months, despite water changes and anything else I could think of to remedy the situation. Then I realized I had a similar issue 2-3 years ago and replacing my bulbs fixed it. Sure enough I did the same thing and a week later the tank was crystal clear (of course my plants were a huge dying mess after being choked out for light for so long)
I'm considering using a different bulb tomorrow to see what develops. Should I wait a few weeks after that to be sure if it's working or will I know in a few days after I change out the water? I had replaced them for a bit with the bulbs I use for my house plants and regular lighting - those "daylight" spectrum CFLs, but it wasn't bright enough. Perhaps less light of a more appropriate spectrum will suffice, but I will start by moving it further from the tank. The other tanks next to this one which aren't green and gross have the same bulbs, but they are raised 3 feet from the tank (I've got 'em hanging from my wine rack, which my ex-wife just loved, I assure you).
Edited by distincthead, 02 April 2013 - 06:51 PM.
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