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A possible pygmy sunfish setup, complete with questions about diet!

Started by Guest_Joshaeus_* , Jun 04 2013 05:42 PM

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16 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_Joshaeus_*

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 05:42 PM

'ello all! I am thinking of using a 30 gallon tank I have as a split nano fish tank, using a tank divider to divide the tank into 2 parts. On one side will be some pygmy sunfish - either evergladei or gilberti. On the other side will be Dario hysginon, a species of badid closely related to the scarlet badis (dario dario). On both sides the plan is to promote a breeding colony of the fish (neither fish is cheap!), so I am planning both to have leaf litter as a substrate component on both sides to promote heavy infusoria growth (always a plus with fry) and to have a heavily planted tank (my 5 gallon, already occupied by a paradise fish, has some rapid-growing hornwort in it that I could prune to acquire pieces for the 30 gallon).
Anyhow, at this moment it is looking like the most viable option for a live food culture for me is confused flour beetles. The beetles grow to only 5 mm, so could they be fed to the sunfish? I know the larvae can be fed to the sunfish (I read a report on a forum stating they did just that successfully), but what about the hard-shelled adults?

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#2 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 06:10 PM

If you really do want a breeding colony, I recommend picking only one of the species and leaving the other half of the tank empty. After about two months, scoop out all your adults and put them in the empty half. Two months later, see if you can see any fry in the vacated half. My Elassoma gilberti only took about four months to reach a half inch (basically full grown) and start showing color. If you had three tanks and could rotate the adults from one to another to another, you could have a guaranteed breeding setup. After some trial and error on my own part, I think that the fry grow up much better without the adults present. Any future setup I make with Elassoma gilberti or similar egg laying nano fish will be done that way: three or more tanks and rotating the adults between them.

Here is a picture of one of my Elassoma gilberti fish eating from the surface. I'd say about three of the 84 fish I had at that time figured out how to eat from the surface.
Posted Image

http://gallery.nanfa...urface.jpg.html
http://gallery.nanfa...urface.jpg.html

They much more readily accepted live californian blackworms, live grindal worms, and frozen bloodworms from the bottom of the tank.

Oh, and, if you're growing hornwort (ceratophyllum demersum), I recommend a nitrate test kit. It doesn't have roots so if it runs out of food (the nitrate stays at 0 ppm for a week or more), it'll start to die. I added extra flake food to keep the nitrate around 10 ppm to 20 ppm at all times. Above 30 ppm is a bit high. But something to keep in mind with rootless plants who only have the water column to get nitrogen from: 0 ppm nitrate is too low.

Edited by EricaWieser, 04 June 2013 - 06:15 PM.

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#3 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 10:55 PM

I think Erica has a good plan here. Use the divider to separate the adults from the fry. This will ensure no predation, and proper feeding, without the stress of tank transfer. If you are dead set on raising both species, then it makes sense to make room for another tank.

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#4 Guest_Joshaeus_*

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 06:33 AM

Thank you for the advice. I admit, this isn't going to be a walstad tank irregardless of what goes in it, so i will be using fertilizer for the plants due to hornwort's nutrient-hungry nature.

Sadly, yesterday my pygmy sunfish plans took a real hit. My stepmother has banned all live food cultures from the house...leaving me with no real options for feeding either darios or elassoma. This might be a rather abrupt termination to my pygmy sunfish plans...

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#5 Guest_Yeahson421_*

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 07:02 AM

What about setting up a tank full of plants and really using it as a rotifer, scud, and blackworm culture? It's the perfect disguise!

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#6 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 08:00 AM

Sadly, yesterday my pygmy sunfish plans took a real hit. My stepmother has banned all live food cultures from the house...leaving me with no real options for feeding either darios or elassoma.

Untrue. Elassoma gilberti will accept frozen foods. Here are some pictures of mine eating frozen bloodworms:
Posted Image

http://gallery.nanfa...worms2.jpg.html
http://gallery.nanfa...odworm.jpg.html

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#7 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 08:01 AM

Also, you have a yard. Just saying.

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#8 Guest_swampfish_*

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 09:29 AM

I have had success maintaining, reproducing, and rearing young Elassoma gilberti on daily feedings of newly hatched brine shrimp and frozen bloodworms for 18 months. Although the brine shrimp nauplii are alive, they are not maintained as a culture. For the last few months, I have fed them white worms weekly, but they prospered, reproduced, and the fry grew up for several months without them. Perhaps a brine shrimp hatchery will be allowed. Phil Nixon.

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#9 Guest_Joshaeus_*

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 09:47 AM

Hmm...interesting ideas. So are you saying that most pygmy sunfish will take frozen food immediately without introducing it alongside live food?

Edited by Joshaeus, 05 June 2013 - 09:58 AM.

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#10 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 05 June 2013 - 10:09 AM

Yes, you can maintain and breed Pygmy sunnies on frozen foods alone. Yes, some may go slow but they learn. If you thaw the brine shrimp and the not just dump them but pour them out lightly they fall rather slowly and catch the eye of the sunnies. And they learn quickly.

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

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#11 Guest_gerald_*

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 11:19 AM

Since you cant keep the fish you like, tell her your interests have shifted, and you want to get some facial piercings and tatoos. ... live foods might not sounds so bad to her then. (... speaking as a parent of a teen).

You can get a 4 ounce (112 grams) can of brine shrimp eggs for about $20 and it will be enough for a year for a small colony of Elassoma. Unlike worms, there is NO possibility of brine shrimp climbing out of a container, no yeast smell, none of the usual reasons that parents dont allow live foods.

Sadly, yesterday my pygmy sunfish plans took a real hit. My stepmother has banned all live food cultures from the house...leaving me with no real options for feeding either darios or elassoma. This might be a rather abrupt termination to my pygmy sunfish plans...

Edited by gerald, 05 June 2013 - 11:19 AM.

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#12 Guest_joefish72_*

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 03:24 PM

I am a teenager from New England who is trying to find a species for his 30 gallon tank. Specifically, I want a breeding colony of something unusual in that tank - the whole tank would be a devoted species tank. I would highly prefer wild-type livebearers such as endlers, goodeids, heterandia formosa (not my first pick due to the lack of color), etc. Have any suggestions?

Posted on: Today 8:29

SInce you posted this on the Livebearer forum I guess you gave up on the sunfish?

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#13 Guest_Joshaeus_*

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 04:39 PM

No, I'm not sure on what I am getting at this moment. You could say I'm trying to broaden my options as widely as possible.

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#14 Guest_Doug_Dame_*

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 01:54 AM

Since you cant keep the fish you like, tell her your interests have shifted, and you want to get some facial piercings and tatoos. ... live foods might not sounds so bad to her then. (... speaking as a parent of a teen).

You can get a 4 ounce (112 grams) can of brine shrimp eggs for about $20 and it will be enough for a year for a small colony of Elassoma. Unlike worms, there is NO possibility of brine shrimp climbing out of a container, no yeast smell, none of the usual reasons that parents dont allow live foods.

Also, it used to be obligatory for all youngers to order "sea monkeys" from the tiny ads in comic books as one ritual of passage. By hatching BBS, you would just be participating in, and continuing and honoring, a grand American tradition that your parents and grandparents probably did back in their day.

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#15 Guest_Usil_*

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 12:24 PM

I recommend picking only one of the species and leaving the other half of the tank empty. After about two months, scoop out all your adults and put them in the empty half. Two months later, see if you can see any fry in the vacated half.

Sounds like very good advice to make what could be an uncertain or complicated process easy.

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#16 Guest_gzeiger_*

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 03:35 PM

Pygmies can also be largely sustained by letting the tank get "dirty" with hair algae. If you can get a good pond snail or ramshorn population going, the sunfish like to eat the eggs and baby snails.

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#17 Guest_Auban_*

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 06:07 PM

Pygmies can also be largely sustained by letting the tank get "dirty" with hair algae. If you can get a good pond snail or ramshorn population going, the sunfish like to eat the eggs and baby snails.

+1

thats pretty much how i keep mine.