This is an idea i have had in my mind every since i got my bowfin ( named Vice ), since his bite is so strong at his young age. I would like to find a way to breed not just to breed, but to find color mutations and breed for those. i believe bowfins would be the next best thing to start breeding for color and pattern like we do with tropical oscers. Not to mention they have the same puppy like personality when it comes to thier owners.
What are your comments and ideas on this.
PS. This has alot of potential to work so please only positive comments thank you.
Breeding bowfins
Started by
Guest_PrimitiveJaws_*
, Sep 10 2013 12:12 AM
12 replies to this topic
#2
Guest_Joshaeus_*
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Posted 10 September 2013 - 05:34 AM
Where are you going to find adequate demand for a 24" plus fish? Just my 2 cents...
#3
Guest_PrimitiveJaws_*
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Posted 10 September 2013 - 08:15 AM
Well for the one i have as soon as he hits 10 inches hes getting his own 250 gallon. As for the breeding project i was hoping to go cheaper then glass tanks and use either small kiddy pools or place some large premolded ponds above ground. doing everything outside tho since they are fish that can handle some cooler climate ( thats where managing space comes in ) . If need be when the winter comes I'd add pond heaters to the tanks but some where i read that you should winterize them or somthing like that so they get ajusted to the cold.
Anybody everherd of that? is it anything like letting koi hibernate ?
Anybody everherd of that? is it anything like letting koi hibernate ?
Edited by PrimitiveJaws, 10 September 2013 - 08:19 AM.
#4
Guest_centrarchid_*
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Posted 10 September 2013 - 09:12 AM
Ponds will be most plausible containment system for breeding bowfins. Unless you really know your stuff and have ability to simulate a natural photoperiod and temperature regime in a tank likely larger than 250-gal, you will have a very difficult time getting breeding to start. You would be more likely to find a market for the 2" bowfin than the larger sizes owing to handsome appearance of fingerlings.
#5
Guest_gzeiger_*
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Posted 10 September 2013 - 09:24 AM
Tricky in a big pond to sort out the desirable traits though?
#6
Guest_centrarchid_*
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Posted 10 September 2013 - 09:56 AM
Catch them all out and hand inspect each one. I do that routinely but not based on coloration. Problem be raising sufficient number required to detect "sports". Feed training would be needed. Additionally, inbreeding would be needed to facilitate detection of variants that are recessive. Finally, you would want to have multiple pairing to increase odds of generating the phenotypic / genotypic variants desired. Project being considered is a lot more involved than simply getting a pair of large and particular to get it on. Also, generation time is important. Fish may need to be 2+, possibly more before breeding first time.
#7
Guest_EricaLyons_*
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Posted 10 September 2013 - 06:09 PM
Look at koi. If they are pretty from above and can get along in a group, you can market them as pond fish. Butterfly koi are an example of a selected-for long fin variety.Where are you going to find adequate demand for a 24" plus fish? Just my 2 cents...
It helps that koi are easy to yarn mop spawn (meaning you can remove the fry and hatch them in a bucket) and with thousands of eggs you can easily sort through the fry for the 100 or so you want to raise to juvenile. How do bowfins breed? Bottom spawners? Floating plant spawners? Caves? How many eggs do they lay in a spawn?
#8
Guest_Skipjack_*
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Posted 10 September 2013 - 06:34 PM
I had the same thought about koi Erica. Personally I am not into color morphs, and prefer wild types. Bowfin typically spawn over dead vegetation. Multiple females will often lay eggs in the same nest with the male. So it is hard to say how many eggs a single female contributes. The male will provide parental care for quite some time. People often find swarms of juvenile bowfin up to a couple thousand. Once you remove the young from the male, the juveniles are quite easy to get onto frozen shrimp, and even pellets. When fed it is almost like a piranha feeding frenzy. You can stick a chunk of shrimp into the swarm, and literally pull it out of the water with several baby bowfin clamped onto it like a vise. Raising up 1000+ juvenile bowfin was one of the most memorable events in my fish keeping career. It was also very profitable. I sold a ton to various universities. They have some special requirements when shipping. Pure O2 will kill them, and so will breather bags. A large vegetated pond with ample food fish and better yet crayfish, deep enough to allow them to over winter should be the ticket. Indoor spawning is not very likely.
#9
Guest_EricaLyons_*
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Posted 10 September 2013 - 06:42 PM
With the piranha-like feeding do you think they would get along okay with people's pond goldfish? It's easier to market a community fish.
About the dead vegetation spawning, I was just reading this interesting article about yarn: http://fish-etc.com/knowledge/1174-2
I bet in a bare cement pond like http://forum.nanfa.o...tive-fish-pond/ you could put a yarn mop in there and leave a retrieval rope on it. Then, every few days, you could lift it up using the retrieval rope and check it for eggs. If there are eggs on it, you could put the mop in a little bucket and select the dozen or so most lightest/darkest/reddest fry. Put a new mop in the pond, repeat. Are the eggs adhesive? If not that might not work.
Can you describe how you raised your bowfin? I've never read a breeding report from this species. That would be really interesting.
About the dead vegetation spawning, I was just reading this interesting article about yarn: http://fish-etc.com/knowledge/1174-2
I bet in a bare cement pond like http://forum.nanfa.o...tive-fish-pond/ you could put a yarn mop in there and leave a retrieval rope on it. Then, every few days, you could lift it up using the retrieval rope and check it for eggs. If there are eggs on it, you could put the mop in a little bucket and select the dozen or so most lightest/darkest/reddest fry. Put a new mop in the pond, repeat. Are the eggs adhesive? If not that might not work.
Can you describe how you raised your bowfin? I've never read a breeding report from this species. That would be really interesting.
#10
Guest_Skipjack_*
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Posted 10 September 2013 - 06:55 PM
Naw. Though bowfin are not big into chasing down food like a bass or pike, anything that wanders within a few feet will be snapped up quickly. If they are captive raised and conditioned to pellets, some of this predatory nature seems to fall away, as long as they are kept good and fat on the easy meal. Even then though, they are not going to pass up the hapless goldfish that wanders within striking range.
I have a dozen or more in my pond. I did not get a spawn this year, at least not a swarm that I could find. I am going to put about 15 pounds of fatheads and golden shiners in in the next couple weeks with hopes of conditioning them well for a spring spawn.
I have a dozen or more in my pond. I did not get a spawn this year, at least not a swarm that I could find. I am going to put about 15 pounds of fatheads and golden shiners in in the next couple weeks with hopes of conditioning them well for a spring spawn.
#11
Guest_PrimitiveJaws_*
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Posted 10 September 2013 - 10:03 PM
This is great stuff. Thanks guys, i think im well on my way to having a plan. I figure if i start two deep ponds outside then i could have one for the first gen breeding and the other for the more desired gen breeding. i also wanted to have some medium to large tanks inside (150 -200 g) to see if i could condition the later gen to breed indoors with consent temps and a little less space. ( this is an atempt to conditon not expecting it to work just seeing if it will ). Then if it does work i could possibly have two different gens an indoor acustomed to constent temps and people and an outdoor gen more like the first gen just with the traits i want. ( I do realize the time this would take but what project dosent take time 
). Although i had another though to start two ponds in doors but have them above ground, in premolded ponds or in large diy crates will glass on the sides so i can see what im working with. and basically follow the same pattern as the outdoor ones. what are your thoghts on this ?
). Although i had another though to start two ponds in doors but have them above ground, in premolded ponds or in large diy crates will glass on the sides so i can see what im working with. and basically follow the same pattern as the outdoor ones. what are your thoghts on this ?
#12
Guest_Skipjack_*
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Posted 10 September 2013 - 10:43 PM
Until you get a handle on breeding bowfin outside, I would not spend time indoors. There is not enough info out there to give you a recipe. You will have to do this on your own. Keep records. Record feeding, temps, photo period, dates etc outdoors first. Then try to duplicate indoors. Well fed bowfin outdoors in an appropriate pond may breed with little problem. Indoors you could spin your wheels for years. So put your effort into providing a great outdoor habitat first. And file with your state for an aquaculture license, so that if your efforts become fruitful, you can legally sell the excess that you do not keep for your breeding program. Good luck. Even if you don't achieve those wretched color morphs, bowfin breeding is a worthwhile endeavor.
#13
Guest_centrarchid_*
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Posted 11 September 2013 - 09:49 AM
Look heavily into forage management and keep number of broodfish relatively to low to ensure adequate nutrition. As for broodfish, go for young adults, not 10 lb monsters. If legal, my suggestion is for you to use a combination of golden shiners and crayfish as forage base. Look into crayfishes legal for culture in your state. Personal preference for golden shiners revolves around their larger size as adults which make make foraging easier on larger bowfin. Also look into training to eat pellets and process used. Bowfin can go wrong pretty fast when just one switches over to cannibalizing siblings.
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