Hello, need help with classroom fish

Not so good and introducing myself but here we go. Hello my name is Melinda. I am a high school student trying to find information of the fish we have in our classroom. Oscar Smith High School is where I go and I enjoy going there. I have always liked fish but I favored cats more and we ended up with three so no fish for me. I came across this site in a search on google and thought that I could ask for help here. If anyone can help me that would be greatly appreciated.

Hi Melinda,

Can you attach a picture of the fish to this thread so we can help ID it? Was it captured locally in a pond or stream, or was it purchased in a pet shop? Or ... ?

Welcome Melinda! I am sure you will find plenty of people here willing to help you out. Good to have you on board!

Actually I know the fish's name. It is called a Mummichog. My teacher said that it is usually with the Killifish if I am correct.

All of a sudden in our classroom, some of the fish have stopped eating then they died before I could get any research done to help them. I looked up another site and it said the fish over where I live usually have some kind of worm in them to make them sick. I don't want all of our fish to die so that is why I started to do research to figure out why they are doing this.

http://www.fisheries...chogs_small.jpg
I think the top one is a male and the bottom one is the female.

does the class room have a liquid test kit?

if you can post the test results:

we need

tank size, in gal, if no one knows how many gal, measure all sides, here is formula to figure out gal [ (h*w*l)*0.00432900431)= US gal ]

what type of filters do you have?

how long has the tank been running?

is the tank cycled?

ph
ammonia
nitrite
nitrate

-------------------------------------------
your water params should look like this

ph = same as tap water (or slightly higher or lower)
ammonia = 0.0 ppm (part per million)
nitrite = 0.0 ppm
nitrate = 0 - 20 ppm (anything under 20 is fine)

if your tests show ammonia or nitrite then you tank does not have a complete nitrogen cycle.

nitrogen cycle in a nut shell

fish produce ammonia through gills and urea.

ammonia is a very toxic substance, it will quickly build up and kill your fish

there is a certain bacteria that "eats" ammonia and converts it to nitrIte

nitrIte is even more toxic but there is yet another bacteria that coverts

nitrIte into nitrAte

nitrAte is pretty harmless to fish, nitrate levels should be kept under 20 ppm (mainly by weekly 25% - 50% water changes)

the nitrogen cycle goes like this

ammonia > nitrIte > nitrAte

I hope that the above makes sense, and i hope i have not insulted your intelligence.

most of us on this sight are extremely enthusiastic about fish keeping (especially natives) and want to help less experienced fish keepers.

Information on the tank would really help, see hmt321's questions. If you cannot do chemical water tests, just let us know what you can. Also, number/size of inhabitants, how long has it been setup, decoration, substrate/gravel, etc? Oddball or un-natural decorations are often found in novice aquariums. Please, no coins, no toys, no plaster statues, etc. Even some rocks are unsuitable.

An immediate water change wouldn't hurt (20% or more), and may help quite a bit. The new water needs to be similar parameters to the existing (temperature, salinity, etc.) If it is "city water", be sure to dechlorinate. As I recall, mummichogs like it salty, brackish to pure seawater. Salt will also kill some freshwater parisites. Not table salt!

I don't think we have one of those tests but I can print out the questions and give it to him to answer then bring it back here in about a day or so.

Okay I have most of the information you wanted I think so if I am missing something just tell me and I will try to get it answered for you.

Liquid test kit: no but he is working on getting one
Tank size: About 20 gallons
Filter: charcoal-being changed 3-16
Long it has been running: Since the beginning of school (day after labor day)
Tank cycled: no
I don't know about the ph, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate sorry.
Number of fish is usually 6 to 8 fish in the tanks but two tanks have been reduced down to 3 fish. We lost another fish the other day but that one was in the group of 6.
Water doesn't get changed. We add water to it to keep it full though. Probably doesn't help the fish that students give them too much shrimp and too much food then complain that their tank water looks dirty.

Do we have any members in Melinda's area that might lend a quick hand? It would be a terrible loss for these students to have such a catastrophic first experience with their classroom aquarium.

It sounds to me like they need a master test kit ASAP, and a substantial partial water change even sooner.

Topping off a tank after water has evaporated unfortunately does not improve the quality of the water in the tank. "Bad stuff" builds up in the water and is never removed. Aquarists do regular partial water changes to keep the water clean and pure. This is sort of like changing the kitty litter for your cat. But not as smelly.

I have tried to get him to change the water but he won't. He doesn't listen to me at all because he says I am trying too hard to save something so small. I atleast convinced him to change the filters tomorrow though. He tried new food on them and they didn't like it so they didn't eat it. I don't think anyone is in my area let alone the fact of getting inside of my school to even get to the fish would be a problem. I doubt my teacher would even accept something like that. Even if I have to save up my money to get the stuff for the fish I really want to save them.

I have tried to get him to change the water but he won't. He doesn't listen to me at all because he says I am trying too hard to save something so small.

He is your teacher so I will try to show some restraint here. But I think he's wrong on several levels:

1) As an educator: one of his students is going above and beyond the call of duty to learn about aquatic ecosystems and he is trying to stifle that. Boo!
2) As an aquarist: one of the basic tenets of the aquarium hobby is that when in doubt, do a partial water change. He's wrong to try to stop this from happening.

I atleast convinced him to change the filters tomorrow though. He tried new food on them and they didn't like it so they didn't eat it. I don't think anyone is in my area let alone the fact of getting inside of my school to even get to the fish would be a problem. I doubt my teacher would even accept something like that. Even if I have to save up my money to get the stuff for the fish I really want to save them.

If the teacher is really that apathetic about the creatures he has taken responsibility for, they are probably better off with you, even if you don't have much in the way of equipment.

If you are serious about rescuing these fish on your own, and you have a small amount of $$ to throw at the problem, here is what I would do:

1) Get the teacher to allow you to take the fish home to save them.
2) Get a hold of a food grade bucket. If you go to a local bakery or restaurant, explain that you are a student working on a science project and ask if they have any buckets that food has come in that you can have.
3) You will need to wash and sanitize the bucket with a solution of chlorox and water. I recommend your parents help you with this for safety's sake. This should be done in a well ventilated area. Put on some dishwashing gloves, grab a stiff brush, and scrub the inside of the bucket. Rinse the bucket several times thoroughly to get the chlorox out. This is work, but hey it is free.
4) Fill the bucket about 2/3 full. You don't want the fish jumping out.
5) Either let the water age overnight (free but risky) or get a hold of a bottle of dechlorinator from the local pet shop, which will probably be about $3. There is a chance that your water company uses chloramine in the water as well, which simply aging overnight will not eliminate. Ask the pet shop clerk for a dechlorinator that also removes chloramine (and read the bottle yourself to make sure that's what you're getting).
6) While you're at the pet shop, get a CHEAP air pump, several feet of air hose, and a sponge filter. Your pet shop visit should cost under $20 easily.
7) set up your "bucket pond" indoors in a room that has fairly stable temperatures. Allow the water temperature to stabilize, then dechlorinate it and install your sponge filter.
You will need to then bring the fish home from school and acclimate them to the bucket. You will need to bring the fish home in some vessel like a thermos or a cleaned out margarine tub or something. Allow the water temperature in the vessel to equalize with the room that your bucket pond is in. Little by little over the course of half an hour take some water from your bucket pond and pour it into the temporary vessel to get the fish accustomed to the difference in water chemestry. You can do this more easily if you instead run a siphon using your air hose from the bucket to the temporary vessel, and tie a knot in the lower end to regulate the flow (slow steady drip!). Make sure you don't overflow the temporary vessel, and make sure the fish can't jump out of it.
9) after the fish are acclimated, remove them from the temporary vessel and place them in the bucket pond. Do not pour water from the temporary vessel into the bucket pond lest it introduce something nasty from your school tank to the bucket pond.

If you want to spend the money you can get some food from the pet shop. Or you can capture and prepare your own food for them which is a lot more work but they will love you for it. But one step at a time, let's see where we can go from here. We need to find out if you will be allowed to take drastic measures to save these fish or not.

Melinda,
I can probably help out as your school is about a half hour away from me. The school will most likely allow someone in to help out with your class' project if the person were properly introduced. I'm sure we can get your classroom tank functioning properly and could even turn it into a small educational showpiece. Perhaps I can call your teacher to arrange for me to visit; he probably knows the procedure for visitors to come into the school.

If he is agreeable, pm me and I'll give you my work number so that he and I can talk about what we can do for your class.

Laura

First, this thread is much too important to continue under the innocuous heading "Hello"
It oughta be "Melinda's Mummichog Mission" if an Admin wants to change the title. You Go Girl !!

Next, Melinda, in addition to viridari's and others excellent advice, there's a set of handouts on basic native fish collecting and aquarium maintenance that i assembled for an NC Environmental Educators workshop last summer. You'll find it here under NANFA 2007 Convention Greensboro >> Pinned: Collecting at the Convention. direct link is
<< http://forum.nanfa.o...?showtopic=1193 >> Make a copy for your teacher.

Unfortunately some folks are of the mindset that animals collected for teaching purposes are meant to be disposable. To some extent i guess this is true, but his arrogance that a fish's health is unimportant because it's small is really disheartening. He's also missing a MAJOR opportunity for himself & students to learn not just what dieing mummichogs look like fish but also water chemistry, microbiology, nutrition, physiology, physical properties of water, & lots more. Of course in learning to keep fish we've ALL killed our fair share through ingorance along the way.

Hope you can come to our NANFA conference in Greensboro in June. We have several members around SE Virginia that you might could catch a ride with.

Gerald

And yes, always use salt for mummichogs. At least 1 or 2 Tablespoons PER GALLON.
Marine aquarium salt is best, like Instant Ocean or similar brand, but Kosher salt or rock salt will do and is better than no salt. Also put some "crushed coral" gravel or "african cichlid" gravel in the tank or in the filter. it is calcium carbonate and magnesium carbonate. The carbonates help keep the pH high (basic or alkaline) and the Ca and Mg provide the "hardness" minerals that mummichogs need. If your tap water is too "soft" (hardness less than 100 ppm) mummichogs wont last long. Hardness, Ca, Mg, and other parameters of your local water supply is probably available on-line, or call the city water dept.

Gerald

And yes, always use salt for mummichogs. At least 1 or 2 Tablespoons PER GALLON.

But only when doing water changes; not when doing top-offs. Melinda, when the water evaporates from your classroom aquarium, the salts remain behind in the tank. So if you add salt to the top-off water, the salt content will continue to climb (not good).

So top-off with fresh water, but use Gerald's excellent advice for water changes.

Thank you for moving it. I was going to message someone about moving it to the right thread if I couldn't do it myself. I where Greensboro is. It is North Carolina right? That place was always troublesome when we would go through there heading to Maggie Valley and Mars Hill College. My half brother used to go to that college so we would have to go through Greensboro in order to get there. I highly doubt I would be able to make it though. I have school still and during the summer my grandmother is going to have surgery so I have to stay with her over that time. I will have yet again another boring summer. I have a question though. I read on a different site that their mating time was not at this time if I am correct it is more around spring time. They are trying to mate early or something. Is it bad for them to eat their young because we can never spot them before they do. I found one and I haven't seen it in awhile now.
As for the salt I know that they like it salty and for some reason we had to add salt in our tank before. We have eight tanks in the classroom. My team's tank has very hyper fish. Everyone else's aren't as hyper as our's.

Something you should have for your tanks at school is Seachem Prime. One bottle oughtta cover the whole class.

It's good stuff and can help reduce ammonia if you have a problem.

I always keep some on hand.

In nature your killifish would breed in spring & summer but in captivity many native fish will breed any time of year if theyre getting enough food, and temp & other conditions are suitable. Some fish like redbelly dace that are only colorful for a couple months in nature, will stay colorful year-round with good aquarium care. Yes mummichogs are very fond of eating other little fish, and dont recognize their own kids. In nature the newborns would go into very shallow areas with dense marsh grasses where they could evade the bigger fish. But thats cool theyre spawning in your tank ! do you ever see eggs ? if so you could move the eggs to a separate container to hatch & grow. get some brine shrimp eggs & hatch them to feed the baby fish.

I read on a different site that their mating time was not at this time if I am correct it is more around spring time. They are trying to mate early or something. Is it bad for them to eat their young because we can never spot them before they do. I found one and I haven't seen it in awhile now.