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Which, if any, of these NH baitfish would be suitable in a 10 gal aquaponics tank for a classroom?


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#21 Guest_mfskarphedin_*

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 07:35 PM

> If you can feed heavily enough and makeup water is minimal, that should pull pH down...Keep solids out of the plant medium once you start pushing system.

After further thought, I was considering maybe growing in long sphagnum moss (not powdered peat) to help with the pH, which can spike to the low 8s in a drought, and to set another example for the kids as it's a biodegradable growing medium unlike the sponge I considered. Do you think that would work well and not clog the system up? However, getting the solid waste out of it would be impossible without wrecking the whole grow bed. I'd need to pre-filter the water in that case. Which, I just realized, is possible with a simple and cheap sponge filter setup.

> If stocking density / feed application / nutrient application rate is too low you could add other nutrients to system for driving plant growth.

I have considered that. On the one hand, I'd like to keep it as much self-sustaining as possible; it would be a better example of a balanced ecosystem for the kids to not add any nutrients but fish food. But on the other hand, as an aquarist, I'd much rather set it in their impressionable minds that 20 2" long fish in a tank is not the norm - not without at least 50% water changes 2x/week, heavily planted either immersed or emersed, lots of aerations, and a large power filter! And potentially with no backup system, I'm afraid to, what a strict aquarist considers, massively overstock the tank. The whole tank would go belly-up over a single weekend if the power went out, maybe hours.

Yeah, I may have to just go with additional nutrients. I can't stop thinking of the kids going home and asking their parents for a 10 gallon tank with 20 goldfish. Or 20 anything! #-o

> Head I am concerned about is the distance between water level of fish culture tank and where it exits lift tube to enter the root medium. I use air lifts and they can be very demanding with respect to air volume needed to move a given amount of water once head gets above an inch or so. I said inch. Test you airlift now to see how high it can move water with your existing air-supply. You should be able to rapidly determine the relationship between airlift tube length above water and resulting water flow if all other aspects are kept constant. It is a frequent problem for airlifts to come up short with respect to water flow they can deliver. Having intake for air-lift low is good but keep it away from return of standpipe to prevent short circuiting of flow.

Ah, I see. Well, I wanted to keep the water at least a couple inches below the bottom of the grow bed (jumping fish bonking their heads) and also have the top of the lift tube an inch above that, same as the standpipe, so the roots would stay in an inch of water no matter what. That's 3 inches minimum.

I do think I have one pump that could do that. However, the AirPod I mentioned is much more powerful, and I'm sure it could lift the water that far. I do have a 10 gal with a UGF that I can use for a test when I get down to the basement and pull out a longer airlift tube. The one problem there is that when the power goes out, the pump reduces to minimum output, so I have to remember to test that mode, too - a backup pump moving no water in a blackout is a waste of money!

> ...Backup for me would simply aeration in culture tank independent of airlift in the event of power failure. Ideally it would be a pump that is also separate and powered separately from the pump driving the airlift.

Penn Plax does also have the B11 pump that does not turn on until it senses the AC power cut off, and then it runs with battery power - for only 48 hours vs. the AirPod's 150 hrs. But they're only $15, which is tremendously cheaper. That would be nice to have on an airstone for the fish and just use a plain AC pump for the airlift. The most powerful pump I have sitting around unused is their Silent Air X-4. It seems to make about the same air as the AirPod on low. I'll give that a test, too. Hopefully it makes enough air, because this would be a lot cheaper option.

Oh, why did I sell my Tetra Luft pump for next to nothing! Oh, because I needed to buy a car. >_> Well, at least someone up north is brewing beer with it...

Well, thanks for hitting me with all the questions and ideas. It's made me think a lot! I think this may be closer to my final setup:

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#22 Guest_mfskarphedin_*

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 07:38 PM

If you go the wild fish route I suggest you run them through a quarantine setup where you can clean them up before putting them into the aquaponics setup. Once moved into culture unit you disease treatment options will be complicated by the plants.


Good point. I've got a lot of extra tanks and pre-cycled filter material I can use for a quarantine tank.

#23 Guest_mfskarphedin_*

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 07:51 PM

This time of year I'd need to use my waders due to cold, but i'd gladly help you catch the dace. Just set up a date/time to meet. I know of one redbelly spot and many for blacknose dace.

To collect legal baitfish all you need is a fishing licence...A one day fishing licence is inexpensive.


Ok, let me run that by the teacher in question! Oh, but you're just south of Keene - that's a couple hours ride. We're near Dover, on the seacoast. Well, I'll let her know anyhow; she might be up for a drive for all I know! Me, I have social anxiety... :blush:

I also could just run the system until spring with platys (when we could hopefully find someone/some place more local,) because I have dozens to rehome ATM. Stupid livebearers.

#24 Guest_Irate Mormon_*

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 11:16 PM

Heh heh, gotta love that illustration!

#25 Guest_mfskarphedin_*

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 02:01 AM

Hi, guys, just a little update! I'm starting out with Platys IF I can get the money and the system cycled before too much of the spring semester goes by. But I thought I'd show those interested my latest design. The grow bed will be deeper than the illustration, and I may go with pea gravel instead of the "Hydroton" specialty hydroponics medium; it depends on what I get or build for a stand and cost. Anyway, here it is!



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#26 Guest_gerald_*

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 10:16 AM

Is your loop siphon intended to fill and drain the plant tray in cycles, or maintain a constant water level? Seems like it might do either, depending on the tube diameter and rate of water level rise in the plant tray.

#27 littlen

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 12:08 PM

Just remember that if you were to ever lose power (to the pump in your fish tank) the plant tank would continue to siphon into your fish tank and flood it. Make sure the bulkhead on your plant tank is closer to the top, and that the fish tank has room to hold additional water in the event of a power failure.

It's quite a mess to find out about this when it's too late.
Nick L.

#28 Guest_centrarchid_*

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 02:58 PM

I would go standpipe route such that is internal to plant culture volume.

Edited by centrarchid, 11 November 2013 - 02:58 PM.


#29 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 06:17 PM

I would buy or build a bell siphon. Then your system will ebb and flow. You will get much better growth, those roots need air.

https://www.google.c...lient=firefox-a

Also,adding Maxi crop to the tank water at low doses is fish safe, and makes a huge difference in plant health.

http://www.1000bulbs...CFY0-MgodtH0A7A

#30 Guest_centrarchid_*

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 09:34 AM

Could you not realize the same benefits of a bell siphon by simply providing supplemental aeration to the water around the plant roots? The added water movement should keep roots in good shape. We use several types of hydroponic system and when roots are continuously inundated we simply make certain they are exposed to good water flow.

#31 Guest_Gavinswildlife_*

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 10:44 AM

I am looking for a science project and would like to go off this model. Now I just need a variable to test. Ph? Fish vs Plant Growth? Food vs Plant Growth?

#32 Guest_centrarchid_*

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 04:52 PM

Either more replicates (entire aquaponic units) or have some treatment in plant portion. Treatments in plant portion could be distance from inlet or type of plant or many other easy to realize adjustments. If treatment to address RAS side, then replicates of whole setup required which might involve playing with different plumbing designs or different types of fish or stocking densities. If enough setups at the level of aquaponic systems, then treatment combinations can get much more interesting where interactions between RAS and plants on top can be explored.

#33 Guest_mfskarphedin_*

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 03:49 AM

Is your loop siphon intended to fill and drain the plant tray in cycles, or maintain a constant water level? Seems like it might do either, depending on the tube diameter and rate of water level rise in the plant tray.


Yes, it's designed to be an ebb and flow. Here's a great little video of one working:



#34 Guest_mfskarphedin_*

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 03:54 AM

I would go standpipe route such that is internal to plant culture volume.


I did design out a bell siphon as you (I think) previously suggested, but I decided that this would do the same thing, take up no space in the already-tiny grow bed, and would be much cheaper and easier to construct overall. I'm surprised more nano systems don't use them!

I love this video:

#35 Guest_mfskarphedin_*

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 04:04 AM

I would buy or build a bell siphon. Then your system will ebb and flow. You will get much better growth, those roots need air.

https://www.google.c...lient=firefox-a

Also,adding Maxi crop to the tank water at low doses is fish safe, and makes a huge difference in plant health.

http://www.1000bulbs...CFY0-MgodtH0A7A


This will ebb and flow. Please see other replies in this thread

Thanks for the tip on the Maxi Crop. I've yet to do much research on plant additives, but I heard "seaweed extract" mentioned here and there. Since this is 0-0-1, I assume it's micronutrients? In my planted aquaria, I use Seachem Flourish, but I assume that would get very expensive, very fast.

Hmm, I wonder how this would do in my planted tanks???

Edited by mfskarphedin, 16 November 2013 - 04:10 AM.





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