'Ello all! I just wanted to know if native saltwater animals, such as those in tide pools, need distilled water like ordinary reef fish do. Anyone have an answer to this question?
Saltwater natives need distilled water?
Started by
Guest_Joshaeus_*
, Jan 10 2014 11:44 AM
24 replies to this topic
#2
Guest_Erica Lyons_*
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Posted 10 January 2014 - 01:38 PM
I would debate whether or not 'ordinary reef fish' need distilled water.
I mean, I understand the benefits for quality control purposes. Take everything out so you can add exactly what you want, and only what you want. But 'need'? No.
I mean, I understand the benefits for quality control purposes. Take everything out so you can add exactly what you want, and only what you want. But 'need'? No.
#3
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 10 January 2014 - 01:45 PM
Agree with Erica. I have kept a reef some years (back several years ago before I fell in love with shiners and chubs), and was quite successful with aged tap water and purchased reef salt. I guess that it would depend on your tap water (like if it was extra hard or extra soft or something).
I would imagine that tidepool species would be more capable of handling some differences as compared to the relatively consistent conditions on a reef.
I would imagine that tidepool species would be more capable of handling some differences as compared to the relatively consistent conditions on a reef.
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#4
Guest_Joshaeus_*
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Posted 10 January 2014 - 02:44 PM
I was just asking since I've heard that the nitrates, phosphates, and sillicates in tap water are said to cause algae blooms and interfere with hard coral growth in tropical reef tanks, Then again, A LOT of things cause algae blooms, interfere with hard coral growth, and cause general mayhem in reef tanks...
Anyhow, thanks for the advise. Has anyone had any personal experience with keeping the saltwater natives? What temperatures would tidepool and/or shallow water organisms require in the northern US?
Anyhow, thanks for the advise. Has anyone had any personal experience with keeping the saltwater natives? What temperatures would tidepool and/or shallow water organisms require in the northern US?
#5
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Posted 10 January 2014 - 06:25 PM
I have kept several saltwater native killifish including marsh killifish, mummichog, gulf killifish, longnose killifish, diamond killifish, and sheepshead minnow. As all of them were collected in Florida except for the mummichog collected in North Carolina, I kept all of them around 72 degrees F. Because the marsh killifish and mummichog are estuary species, I kept them in half-strength saltwater with a specific gravity of 1.012. I kept the others at full-strength saltwater with a specific gravity of 1.023. However, I allowed loss of water over several weeks by evaporation and then refilled the tank with fresh water with all species, providing some fluctuation in the salinity. The fish appeared to do better with these fluctuations. Water changes utilized proper strength saltwater after tanks were filled. All were fed flake food (Tetramin) with occasional frozen brine shrimp or frozen bloodworms. I only tried to reproduce the marsh killifish and gulf killifish, using newly hatched brine shrimp to feed the fry.
Phil Nixon
Phil Nixon
#6
Guest_velvetelvis_*
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Posted 12 January 2014 - 11:01 AM
I keep S. cristata blennies in an intertidal biotope with native zoanthids (Z. sociatus) and a couple of macroalgaes. The tank is unheated and usually runs between 71-74 F. I use well water obtained from a friend for topoff and (mixed with reef salts) water changes. I've been lazy about tank maintenance lately, so the parameters have probably fluctuated some. All of the livestock is doing well, however (I do have algae outbreaks, but the blennies feed on algae and it's naturally a "messy" habitat anyway).
Most reef tanks are kept by aquarists who want SPS corals and keep tropical marine fish species like anthias, tangs, angelfish, wrasses, etc--which, like Michael said, have evolved in very stable, low-nutrient conditions and consistent warm temperatures. These animals are much more demanding than the ones we would typically keep, since they aren't adapted to daily swings in temperature, salinity, etc.
I would contact http://www.coldwater...neaquatics.com/ for advice on keeping temperate natives. I've never dealt with them personally--I have a Florida biotope and they specialize in NW Pacific species, along with some others--but they seem well-informed and very enthusiastic, and I've heard good things about them.
Most reef tanks are kept by aquarists who want SPS corals and keep tropical marine fish species like anthias, tangs, angelfish, wrasses, etc--which, like Michael said, have evolved in very stable, low-nutrient conditions and consistent warm temperatures. These animals are much more demanding than the ones we would typically keep, since they aren't adapted to daily swings in temperature, salinity, etc.
I would contact http://www.coldwater...neaquatics.com/ for advice on keeping temperate natives. I've never dealt with them personally--I have a Florida biotope and they specialize in NW Pacific species, along with some others--but they seem well-informed and very enthusiastic, and I've heard good things about them.
#7
littlen
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Posted 13 January 2014 - 07:15 AM
Josh, I will second what others have already said in this thread. No, you do not need distilled water for your temperate, native fish and inverts. It's more important for corals. (And for what its worth, 'ordinary reef fish' don't need it either if you're keeping a fish only system). Room temp is fine for most species, and they can handle a wide range in salinity/temp changes. Rain events change both factors quickly and as such, the animals are able to adapt quickly. What species are you thinking about keeping?
Nick L.
#8
Guest_Joshaeus_*
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Posted 13 January 2014 - 11:58 AM
I was thinking about, not a particular species, but a tide pool biotope from New England. I have never seen a fish in a maine tidepool, so it might be invert-only. Now that I mention it, does anyone know if collecting animals and algae from tide pools is legal in Maine? And on another note, since tide pools are relatively small and would be affected greatly by rainfall and snowfall, would that mean that some tide pools are high end brackish systems?
Edited by Joshaeus, 13 January 2014 - 12:05 PM.
#9
Guest_Erica Lyons_*
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Posted 13 January 2014 - 12:57 PM
If you want to do a tide pool, you could do a tidal surge setup like some people use to try to breed mudskippers.
You can see the tidal surge around 0:57.
You can see the tidal surge around 0:57.
#10
Guest_Irate Mormon_*
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Posted 13 January 2014 - 10:51 PM
A mudskipper AND an archerfish - that is a very cool combination! What is that thing crawling on the log?
#11
Guest_Erica Lyons_*
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Posted 13 January 2014 - 11:11 PM
I was thinking about that myself. Maybe a slug? A snail? I'll ask on the video.A mudskipper AND an archerfish - that is a very cool combination! What is that thing crawling on the log?
#12
Guest_velvetelvis_*
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Posted 01 March 2014 - 09:53 AM
Possibly one of these:
http://en.wikipedia....norimosphaeroma
I used to see similar critters running around on docks at Sebastian Inlet (in central Florida).
http://en.wikipedia....norimosphaeroma
I used to see similar critters running around on docks at Sebastian Inlet (in central Florida).
#13
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Posted 01 March 2014 - 10:21 AM
It definitely will depend on your local water. As a bit of an experiment I used 'aged' tap water for one marine aquarium and reverse osmosis for another a couple years ago. HUGE difference in the amount of algae despite using the same live rock in both tanks, feeding way less in the tank with tap water, and having an extremely low bio-load in the tap water tank.
Our tap water has ~350 ppm on a TDS meter...the reverse osmosis unit took that down to 0-1 ppm. I imagine some of those dissolved solids helped the algae a bit.
Our tap water has ~350 ppm on a TDS meter...the reverse osmosis unit took that down to 0-1 ppm. I imagine some of those dissolved solids helped the algae a bit.
#14
Guest_Erica Lyons_*
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Posted 01 March 2014 - 02:55 PM
That is by far the hardest tap water I've ever heard of. 350 ppm is 19.6 degrees of hardness. Even the African rift lakes aren't that hard. "Reported hardness values for Malawi range from 6 to 10 degrees of hardness (DH) (125.0 to 170.5 parts per million total dissolved solids — ppm TDS), and for Lake Tanganyika from 10 to 12 DH (170.5 to 205.0 ppm TDS)."Our tap water has ~350 ppm on a TDS meter...the reverse osmosis unit took that down to 0-1 ppm. I imagine some of those dissolved solids helped the algae a bit.
http://www.fishchann...n-cichlids.aspx
#15
Guest_gzeiger_*
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Posted 02 March 2014 - 11:52 AM
There can be thin contributing to TDS that don't contribute to hardness, but that number definitely makes me suspect your meter.
#16
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Posted 02 March 2014 - 12:06 PM
Mill Creek in Nashville, TN, has a TDS in the range of 250-275 ppm even when it's flooded and diluted. A reading of 350 ppm for tap water doesn't surprise me if your water is collected from the right geology.
#17
Guest_Erica Lyons_*
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Posted 02 March 2014 - 12:34 PM
I believe the hardness meter. There are certainly places in the world with tap water that hard, it's just extremely, extremely rare. Looking it up online, I could find maybe four places in the world with tap water above 250. This means that rndouglas' water is not normal, and does not represent the average person's experience. You've got to wonder what else is dissolved in that water that makes it unusual and could be encouraging the algae.
You guys realize how hard this water is, that we're talking about? To put it into context, ocean water's dissolved calcium is approximately 400 ppm.
Source: http://www.lenntech....m-and-water.htm
That should make it easier to see: rndouglas's 350 ppm water is very, Very unusual freshwater.
You guys realize how hard this water is, that we're talking about? To put it into context, ocean water's dissolved calcium is approximately 400 ppm.
Source: http://www.lenntech....m-and-water.htm
That should make it easier to see: rndouglas's 350 ppm water is very, Very unusual freshwater.
#18
Guest_michifish_*
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Posted 02 March 2014 - 01:23 PM
Are not TDS and hardness two different measurements?
#19
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 02 March 2014 - 01:47 PM
Of course they are... TDS takes into account organic and inorganic solid particulates
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#20
Guest_fundulus_*
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Posted 02 March 2014 - 03:56 PM
Typically TDS is measuring calcium, magnesium, chlorides and silica primarily. Federal drinking water standards are for no more than 500 ppm for TDS.
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