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New to natives, backyard pond

Started by Guest_wispfox_* , Apr 08 2014 01:32 AM

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14 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_wispfox_*

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 01:32 AM

Hi everyone!

I'm here because I was having enough trouble keeping the goldfish population in my backyard pond at a reasonable level, and I now suspect that the odd behavior and appearance I was seeing last fall was ich. And as far as I can tell, no fish (but one tadpole and at least one trapdoor snail) survived the winter. Probably some of the clams, did, too.

So, I'm thinking that perhaps there are better ways to go about this, and I saw the idea of native fish, which seemed reasonable.

Eventually found this forum, did a bunch of reading, and am hesitantly thinking that (after I treat the possibly remaining ich) I will want to go to a bait shop, get some bait fish (preferably a native killifish type and fathead/rosy red minnows, to start) and have them there for a bit to eat the mosquitos, be pretty, and get to a good stable state.

I'm thinking that I may also want to try orange spotted sunfish, although I can't tell if they are a native to the Boston area or not. I'm mostly trying to keep the fish load balanced and have fish that will help keep each other in balance, though, so I'm really sort of flailing at this point. I would estimate the pond as being about 1500 gallons, but do not know for sure because it - and its goldfish - were here when we bought the house. It does have a waterfall/biofilter as well.

I don't know if shiners would do ok in a backyard pond, nor do I yet have a good sense of what all might fit well together while still providing interest. I know that I tended to like minnows growing up with a creek in my backyard, and still tend to look at all water for surface-level small fish, so I figure the killifish and minnows are a good start and unlikely to disagree with each other or later additions.

I figuring finding local snails or clams wouldn't hurt, although I have't the foggiest where I ought to look for such things. Clearly, more searching is required. Perhaps sometime when I haven't been unable to sleep and am still awake at 2:30am, though.

Anyone have any thoughts, suggestions, pointers to where I should be looking?

I didn't notice a search function on this site... Or, I didn't notice one when I hadn't yet logged in! Clearly I should go look for Boston area stuff now.

#2 Guest_Subrosa_*

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 04:51 AM

If ich is indeed your problem, at this point the easiest way to eradicate it would be to remove any remaining fish and allow the pond to be fishless for a period of up to a couple months, depending on water temperature. Ich is an obligate parasite of fish. No fish, the parasites die out. Amphibians, clams, snails and other inverts cannot host it, and it's quite likely chemical means of eliminating ich would kill them. But you should consider one thing. Ich is found in many bodies of water that contain lots of fish. But few fish die of ich in the wild. A parasite which efficiently kills the host it requires to live and reproduce wouldn't last long, speaking from the standpoint of evolution. If ich infests and kills all the fish in a pond or aquarium, most of the blame lies in improper maintenance.

#3 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 08 April 2014 - 07:13 AM

Hey Wispfox, welcome to the forum. Sounds like you did find the search function (up there on the top right, just under your name). I would also recommend that you think about maybe getting a Peterson's field guide to fishes if you are interested in seeing what the native range is of certain species.

Personally, I like your idea of going with a native topminnow in your pond. But I would be cautious about local bait shops. They are not usually doing a lot to maintain their fish (I mean they only need them to live for a day or so after they sell them). They are often not fed and are in pretty rough shape by the time you get there. Now this may not be the case if you go to a small local shop that collects their own, but still something to watch out for. Maybe some of more northernly members will jump in here as my experience is pretty southern. But I would bet that you do not need to worry about introducing snails to such a system (you probably have them already if you have any plants at all).

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

#4 Guest_Subrosa_*

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 08:43 AM

One consideration when you stock a pond with natives. Typical pondfish have been developed to be attractive when viewed from above. Most NA natives and other wild fish have bred selectively to NOT be visible from above. Or below or from the side if they can manage it! The xanthic form of Fatheads, aka Rosy Reds are not bad, considering their small size. Ditto for Topminnows. But generally speaking a native stocked pond is not going to have as much visual impact from above as one with Goldfish or Koi. Full disclosure.

#5 Guest_wispfox_*

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 11:04 AM

"If ich is indeed your problem, at this point the easiest way to eradicate it would be to remove any remaining fish and allow the pond to be fishless for a period of up to a couple months, depending on water temperature. Ich is an obligate parasite of fish. No fish, the parasites die out. Amphibians, clams, snails and other inverts cannot host it, and it's quite likely chemical means of eliminating ich would kill them. But you should consider one thing. Ich is found in many bodies of water that contain lots of fish. But few fish die of ich in the wild. A parasite which efficiently kills the host it requires to live and reproduce wouldn't last long, speaking from the standpoint of evolution. If ich infests and kills all the fish in a pond or aquarium, most of the blame lies in improper maintenance."

Well, there are no fish in there right now, so that much is already all set.

And yeah, I'd bet it was the ridiculous fecundity of the goldfish and my complete inability to catch enough of them. I was worried about it, but was also starting a PhD program and thus distracted.

"Peterson's field guide to fishes if you are interested in seeing what the native range is of certain species."

Oh! Yes, I was trying to decide what my best resource for native fish might be, in terms of a book.

"But generally speaking a native stocked pond is not going to have as much visual impact from above as one with Goldfish or Koi. Full disclosure."

I'm ok with that. Sure, the goldfish are brighter, but if they are going to make it impossible for me to keep a healthy pond, then I don't want them.

Thanks for the replies!

I was thinking Rosy Reds seemed like a good idea, as well as some variation of native killifish. I do _like_ watching minnows, and it's not like they were ever the brightest colored things, even in the backyard creek I grew up near.

I'm still uncertain as to what sort of larger fish (probably a sunfish), and what sort of complication might be involved in the various inhabitents keeping each other's population in check, if this is even possible in a backyard pond.

#6 Guest_wispfox_*

Guests

Posted 08 April 2014 - 11:06 AM

Hey Wispfox, welcome to the forum. Sounds like you did find the search function (up there on the top right, just under your name). I would also recommend that you think about maybe getting a Peterson's field guide to fishes if you are interested in seeing what the native range is of certain species.

Personally, I like your idea of going with a native topminnow in your pond. But I would be cautious about local bait shops. They are not usually doing a lot to maintain their fish (I mean they only need them to live for a day or so after they sell them). They are often not fed and are in pretty rough shape by the time you get there. Now this may not be the case if you go to a small local shop that collects their own, but still something to watch out for. Maybe some of more northernly members will jump in here as my experience is pretty southern. But I would bet that you do not need to worry about introducing snails to such a system (you probably have them already if you have any plants at all).

Oh, and noted about the bait shop!

Perhaps then I shall obtain a minnow trap and figure out where and how to catch killis (Pretty sure rosy reds are feeders in pet stores?). I have obtained a fishing license so that I can do such thnigs safely.

#7 Guest_fundulus_*

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 12:10 PM

A lot of freshwater streams around the Boston area have banded killifish, Fundulus diaphanus. You could probably catch them out of the Charles especially if you find a relatively sandy area. I helped once to catch them with a seine from the Charles just upstream from the North Harvard Street/JFK Street bridge along the "Harvard shore". But you're guaranteed to attract a large crowd doing that...

#8 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 08 April 2014 - 01:51 PM

Thanks for chiming in Bruce... I know it says your from 'bama... but I know you are really from "Baahstaan" and could help out with some common sense suggestions of what is actually up there in the water.

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

#9 Guest_wispfox_*

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 02:54 PM

A lot of freshwater streams around the Boston area have banded killifish, Fundulus diaphanus. You could probably catch them out of the Charles especially if you find a relatively sandy area. I helped once to catch them with a seine from the Charles just upstream from the North Harvard Street/JFK Street bridge along the "Harvard shore". But you're guaranteed to attract a large crowd doing that...

Noted, and thank you!

Shall wait a bit while I try to encourage the pond to recover and make sure I know what I want to get.

#10 Guest_wispfox_*

Guests

Posted 02 May 2014 - 07:30 PM

A lot of freshwater streams around the Boston area have banded killifish, Fundulus diaphanus. You could probably catch them out of the Charles especially if you find a relatively sandy area. I helped once to catch them with a seine from the Charles just upstream from the North Harvard Street/JFK Street bridge along the "Harvard shore". But you're guaranteed to attract a large crowd doing that...

Hmm! I'm presuming that I'd want to wait until later in the season, if for no other reason than because it's cold in the water right now. Is it safe to assume that they ought to be visible from the shore, if in a sandy area, or would one need to be in the water?

#11 Guest_wispfox_*

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 04:51 PM

Photos of my pond with some Rosy reds in it.

Also, a confused turtle.

Attached Images

#12 mattknepley

NANFA Member

Smack-dab between the Savannah and the Saluda.

Posted 03 May 2014 - 05:02 PM

Nice! Blows my pink, plastic kiddie pool away for sure!

Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."

#13 Guest_wispfox_*

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 08:31 PM

It came with the house! Well, except for the turtle, since that isn't from my yard.

Of course, kiddy pools wouldn't allow fish to survive our winters! (And are totally where I would keep fish and tadpoles from nearby water sources as a kid. Airation largely involved stirring the water when I remembered, poor things...)

#14 mattknepley

NANFA Member

Smack-dab between the Savannah and the Saluda.

Posted 04 May 2014 - 08:45 AM

It came with the house! Well, except for the turtle, since that isn't from my yard.

Of course, kiddy pools wouldn't allow fish to survive our winters! (And are totally where I would keep fish and tadpoles from nearby water sources as a kid. Airation largely involved stirring the water when I remembered, poor things...)

For sure on the freezing solid part. I kinda sweated, uh...shivvered, it out for my pool dwellers this winter. It was a cold one by Palmetto standards and several times it froze several inches thick. But the only finny inhabitants, gambusia, made it just fine. Actually had very small fry when we were still getting slivers of ice on the top- either that or they had overwintered in the muddy substrate and that's just when I happened to notice them. Am anxious to try some other "toughies" out there this winter. Gerald P. has had good luck with eastern mudminnow in a kiddie pool, and that would reduce my gambusia numbers...

Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."