Does anyone know of some darters that are native to Florida? I know of brown and swamp darters, but are there any others? I ask because any Florida fish could not possibly need a significant (I.E difficult to achieve) cooling period in order to spawn them.
Darters native to Florida?
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Guest_Joshaeus_*
, Apr 21 2014 05:06 PM
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#2
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Posted 21 April 2014 - 07:02 PM
The swamp darter (Eth. fusiforme) is the only Florida darter that ranges all the way down into semi-tropical south Florida, but it also ranges up all the way up to Maine, according to Peterson's. The blackbanded darter (Perc. nigrofasciatus) ranges down to around Orlando, and the brown darter (Eth. edwinii) gets to probably near Ocala ... both of those would expect to see (air) temps below 32 at least a few times per winter, even at the most extreme southern edge of their respective ranges.
Florida is not especially rich in darter species, especially not strikingly colorful varieties.
There are a few more darters in the panhandle, many or most of which range into Alabama or even TN, e.g., gulf darter Eth. swaini, coastal darter Eth. colorosum, ,and Florida sand darter Ammocrypta bifascia. (Not the complete list.)
In addition, a couple of darters with fairly wide regional ranges are listed as just touching the northwest corner of the Florida panhandle, but AFAIK none of us NANFAns has ever actually seen them in Florida, and we've gone looking more than a couple of times: Eth. stigmaeum (speckled), Eth. histrio (harlequin), Eth. parvipinne (goldstripe), and Per. vigil (saddleback). We also haven't seen the new logperch Per. austroperca (southern logperch).
Bottom line: all the species of darters found in Florida probably experience at least some seasonal temperature effects, and most of the individual specimens in the wild probably do too. (Possible exception: brown or blackbanded darters living in spring runs may be close to 72 degrees all year.)
Have you tried manipulating the LIGHT cycle? That may have the desired triggering effect, and probably would be easier to do. I have a couple of electrical timers that have a ring of little push down things that cycle the light on/off, there's 4 mini-switches per hour. Using one of these timers, it would be easy to add 15 minutes of light every week to simulate the sun's cycle. (Brinks brand, probably came from Walmart or Home Depot.)
Also, in the later winter or early spring, you could try using a heater to raise the water temperature in their tanks 5 or 10 degrees within a week, up to high 70s, and see if that tricks them into thinking the breeding season is suddenly upon them.
HTH - d.d.
Florida is not especially rich in darter species, especially not strikingly colorful varieties.
There are a few more darters in the panhandle, many or most of which range into Alabama or even TN, e.g., gulf darter Eth. swaini, coastal darter Eth. colorosum, ,and Florida sand darter Ammocrypta bifascia. (Not the complete list.)
In addition, a couple of darters with fairly wide regional ranges are listed as just touching the northwest corner of the Florida panhandle, but AFAIK none of us NANFAns has ever actually seen them in Florida, and we've gone looking more than a couple of times: Eth. stigmaeum (speckled), Eth. histrio (harlequin), Eth. parvipinne (goldstripe), and Per. vigil (saddleback). We also haven't seen the new logperch Per. austroperca (southern logperch).
Bottom line: all the species of darters found in Florida probably experience at least some seasonal temperature effects, and most of the individual specimens in the wild probably do too. (Possible exception: brown or blackbanded darters living in spring runs may be close to 72 degrees all year.)
Have you tried manipulating the LIGHT cycle? That may have the desired triggering effect, and probably would be easier to do. I have a couple of electrical timers that have a ring of little push down things that cycle the light on/off, there's 4 mini-switches per hour. Using one of these timers, it would be easy to add 15 minutes of light every week to simulate the sun's cycle. (Brinks brand, probably came from Walmart or Home Depot.)
Also, in the later winter or early spring, you could try using a heater to raise the water temperature in their tanks 5 or 10 degrees within a week, up to high 70s, and see if that tricks them into thinking the breeding season is suddenly upon them.
HTH - d.d.
#3
Guest_Joshaeus_*
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Posted 21 April 2014 - 07:07 PM
So...I don't need to shove the temp down 20+ degrees to get them to spawn? I had considered using photoperiod alone to make them think it is breeding time, but was not sure it would work.
#4
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Posted 21 April 2014 - 07:32 PM
Swamp Darters are often available at pet stores, and when they are they're dirt cheap. Find a store that sells live Ghost Shrimp and carefully check out the tank. Swamps are among the more common contaminants in the tanks. I get them up here all the time, which is interesting because they're considered endangered by PA. They have really interesting behavior even though they're rather plain in appearance.
#5
Guest_gerald_*
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Posted 22 April 2014 - 08:34 AM
Speaking of N. Amer fish in general, not just darters, some do and some dont "need" seasonal temp and/or light manipulation, and it may not be correlated with how far north or south they live. For many minnows and sunfish, good food (mosquito larvae, blackworms) and frequent water changes will bring them into spawning condition without any seasonal temp/light manipulation. My rainbow shiners (from north AL) bred for 4 or 5 generations with minimal seasonal variation. Ray Katula's and others folks' articles on the main NANFA website (not the forum) should have more detail on how/why/when darters will breed with or without seasonal manipulation.
#6
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Posted 22 April 2014 - 09:01 AM
I had some brown darters come into spawning condition this spring. I think they just noticed the change in day length. They were in my fish room and no light on the tank. This is in my basement where there is little change in temp year round but there are small windows at the top of the room which let in light so they should be able to tell when the days are getting longer. Seems that alone might do it. I also think this is a very attractive species for aquariums. I think Todd Crail had some gulf darters come into spawning condition also with very minimal change in temp mostly day length change from windows. I also think that is a nice aquarium species. Both native to Fl.
Male Brown Darter Etheostoma edwini
Male Gulf Darter Etheostoma swaini
Male Brown Darter Etheostoma edwini
Male Gulf Darter Etheostoma swaini
#7
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 22 April 2014 - 09:36 AM
Hard to beat brown darters (worst common name EVER for a red spotted fish) in a small aquarium. I have some still from the Florida convention... so colorful, small, and long lived under my negligent husbandry... whats not to love!!?! And they are very active and curious... they really remind me of the smaller colorful cousin to a swamp darter... they do well in slack water and have that head turning thing where they seem to be looking back at you almost every time you see one.
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#8
Guest_Joshaeus_*
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Posted 22 April 2014 - 11:02 AM
So light will do it? OK, good...little need to play around with frozen bottles then 
#9
Guest_smbass_*
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Posted 22 April 2014 - 12:19 PM
I don't think light will do for all darters but certain southern species it should work.
#10
Guest_FirstChAoS_*
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Posted 23 April 2014 - 02:40 AM
The swamp darter (Eth. fusiforme) is the only Florida darter that ranges all the way down into semi-tropical south Florida, but it also ranges up all the way up to Maine, according to Peterson's.
HTH - d.d.
Not my fault we share a river drainage with Maine.
I heard Florida has tesselate darters but they are not common as they are at the very edge of the range. (not sure if they are protected their or not).
I wonder why Swamp and tesselate darters have such a huge range of latitudes, Most other darters (outside the Mississippi drainage where their is a clear river link) seem to be more limited in range.
#11
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Posted 23 April 2014 - 06:31 AM
Living in New England, I've never had a problem conditioning any "winter period" in fish or herps. Indoor temps cool enough if you keep heat reasonable and most house have cooler rooms or cellars. Day light cycles have an effect in rooms with enough windows [despite what ever artificial light period], and for years in my windowless cellar I bred multiple fish and herp species using a multisetting timer that gave different photoperiods to different tanks. My biggest problem in rooms with windows, with herps anyway, was masking the seasons outdoors to prevent animals from wanting to hibernate in the fall, even with heaters and timed photoperiod.
Edited by mikez, 23 April 2014 - 06:32 AM.
#12
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Posted 23 April 2014 - 08:17 AM
Assuming I DID go about trying to chill the tank to get a more temperate darter species (I.E savannah darters) to breed, would adding ore insulation to the tank (I.E styrofoam) help to keep the temperature down by slowing heating?
#13
Guest_gerald_*
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Posted 23 April 2014 - 09:50 AM
Depends where the heat is coming from. If it's mainly from pumps and lights, then no, insulation wont help. If heat is from warm room air, and you're using frozen water bottles for cooling, then yes, insulation should help.
#14
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Posted 23 April 2014 - 09:55 PM
E. edwini & swainii are common around here, and it gets pretty hot in summer and not very cold in most winters.
Ammocrypta are seriously cool, being so completely see-through clear. Very picky feeders, though. I know a surefire good spot for those if you ever come down this way and want to see them, but don't take any unless you know you can care for them.
We had another dater that lived in a cave called the Happy Hole, but it got dynamited shut. It had SO much blue & orange on it that we took to calling it the War Eagle darter ( for Auburn ). I don't guess they're around anymore.
The endagered Okaloosa Darter makes it's way up here sometimes, so that's always fun to find.
The best one, though, I haven't been able to identify. Many years ago a buddy of mine from high school brought a jarful of darters into my shop. They were a gorgeous dusky green all over. At the time I didn't know much about darters or natives in general, so I didn't understand any significance they might have had. Today, though, I know that there aren't any solidly dusky green darters known from this area, so I really need to find them. They came from a basin at the bottom of a waterfall near the town of Gantt. My buddy says he'd be happy to show me the spot, but our schedules don't mesh at all.
One day, though...
Ammocrypta are seriously cool, being so completely see-through clear. Very picky feeders, though. I know a surefire good spot for those if you ever come down this way and want to see them, but don't take any unless you know you can care for them.
We had another dater that lived in a cave called the Happy Hole, but it got dynamited shut. It had SO much blue & orange on it that we took to calling it the War Eagle darter ( for Auburn ). I don't guess they're around anymore.
The endagered Okaloosa Darter makes it's way up here sometimes, so that's always fun to find.
The best one, though, I haven't been able to identify. Many years ago a buddy of mine from high school brought a jarful of darters into my shop. They were a gorgeous dusky green all over. At the time I didn't know much about darters or natives in general, so I didn't understand any significance they might have had. Today, though, I know that there aren't any solidly dusky green darters known from this area, so I really need to find them. They came from a basin at the bottom of a waterfall near the town of Gantt. My buddy says he'd be happy to show me the spot, but our schedules don't mesh at all.
One day, though...
Edited by Mysteryman, 23 April 2014 - 09:56 PM.
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