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Pumpkinseed and green sunfish breeding

Started by Guest_Eddy Wilson_* , Apr 30 2014 05:58 PM

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#1 Guest_Eddy Wilson_*

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 05:58 PM

Sorry for the crappy cell phone pics (no pun intended with the native species name), this is my pumpkinseed and green sunfish spawning. There are eggs stuck on the rocks below them. Is it possible for these to make hybrids? Or do you guys think they won't hatch?

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#2 Guest_butch_*

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 06:23 PM

That's good chance these eggs will hatch. Green x Pumpkinseed hybrids are very common in some localities where both species are present. Beware! This cross will grow faster and larger than their pure parents.

Edited by butch, 30 April 2014 - 06:24 PM.

#3 Guest_Eddy Wilson_*

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 06:27 PM

Some hybrid vigor huh? Nice. These are in a tank with african cichlids and bred by accident. Do you think any of the fry will make it? They are in a 125 with a fair amount of hiding places.

#4 Guest_Erica Lyons_*

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 07:49 PM

Welcome to the NANFA forum, Eddy!

Nah, the fry won't survive with the adult fish in there. They'll get eaten really fast. But take the adults out for a week to let the fry hatch then, once they do, transfer them to a fry rearing tank and you'll get lots of fish :)

I used to use these as temporary holding tanks. They make good 'insta-tanks' when you need a tank suddenly. You can keep fish in this kind of setup:
Bucket tank, bucket tank. Bucket tank to the rescue

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#5 Guest_Erica Lyons_*

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 07:53 PM

By the way, what have the temperature and lighting hours been over the last few months? I wonder why they spawned now. It's April, so I guess they would be spawning in the wild, but how do they know it's April? Did you catch them just recently?

#6 Guest_Eddy Wilson_*

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 09:34 PM

That bucket tank is a great idea, but my problem is this happened in my 125 gal, I have three 6" africans, four 8-14" plecos, the pumpkinseed, green sunfish, a couple catfish. I don't have anywhere to put all that. Not to mention I don't really want to move all of them. Maybe I can put the pumpkinseed and green sunfish in a 55 and they will spawn again?

I turn the lights on when I get up in the morning around 7 am and turn them off when I go to bed between 11pm and midnight for years now. I got the green sunfish from a hatchery spring 2012 and my son caught the pumpkinseed last summer so they have both been in there a while. The temp in the tank has gone up 2-3 degrees in the last month or so.

#7 Guest_Eddy Wilson_*

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 09:42 PM

Is there a safe way to move the eggs to another tank?

#8 Guest_Erica Lyons_*

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 10:42 PM

You can use a gravel siphon to collect them from the bottom, but the large fish will eat them before you can get there.

#9 Guest_centrarchid_*

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 08:31 AM

We used to make the cross fairly routinely. Viability of offspring very high. Growth was intermediate between pure parentals. Sex ratio skewed strongly towards males. Fertility of females greatly reduced. We did not intentionally test males but no uncontrolled reproduction took place even though male hybrids made nest and courted female sunfishes.

You can rear offspring with father only without removing him so long as everyone is well fed. This phenomenon does not occur naturally with Lepomis species like pumpkinseed or greens but is fairly easy to replicate in an aquarium setting.

#10 Guest_gerald_*

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 10:00 AM

I like Erica's suggestion: use a siphon (or piece of old garden hose) to suck out some of the eggs into a bucket ASAP, before they get eaten or start hatching. Dont try to get them all; just save maybe 20 to 30 or whatever you want to raise.

#11 Guest_centrarchid_*

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 11:55 AM

If transfer route is taken, then I strongly suggest waiting until prolarval stage (~36 h post-hatch) realized as they are more tolerant of handling and enumeration efforts will be more accurate. Too many or few can be problematic. If male is left with them then likely of being eaten is low. I also prefer to use a regular 1/8 to 1/4" airline hose for extracting prolarvae where you have excess length in which drawn volume can be scrutenized for prolarvae within length of hose. Also gently transfer prolarvae from hose into a bowl of some sort with a few rocks that prolavae can hide under. Avoid transfer of detritus into bowl. Place bowl into your larval rearing tank and proceed with your rearing efforts once they leave bowl. With nest spawn we will make and post a video demonstrating how to transfer prolarvae.

#12 Guest_centrarchid_*

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 11:57 AM

Female spawning in images does not appear to be a typical female green sunfish. Looks hybrid or has been reared on very small particulate sized food items.

#13 Guest_Eddy Wilson_*

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 02:32 PM

Erica was right, they were gone before I could get to them. I really appreciate all the input from everyone.

centrarchid, this green sunfish developed banding pattern for just the 2 days they were mating. I believe it is a pure specimen as I have had many of these guys in the past and have had this particular one since it was less than an inch long. If I could figure out how to post a better pic from a month ago I think you would agree. Is there a limit here on how many pics I can post?

#14 Guest_Dustin_*

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 03:25 PM

Erica, have you spawned Lepomis species before? If not, please allow someone with direct experience to address the questions.

#15 Guest_Eddy Wilson_*

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 03:31 PM

Thanks for the advice, I'm going to put them in an extra 55 I have and see if they will go again this year. I am a reptile person by nature but I have always had a couple aquariums up and running. The only fish I have bred are convicts and this has been for the sole purpose of using them as feeders for various species of fish and reptiles. I chose convicts because they so readily breed. I work with a couple endangered species as well, eastern and texas indigo snakes. I breed them amongst other snake species.

I took some pics of the green sunfish but I really think I am limited on the amount of uploading I can do here, do you know anything about this?

#16 Guest_centrarchid_*

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 03:35 PM

If the male is still over nest site acting aggressively then offspring are still there.

#17 Michael Wolfe

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 03:43 PM

I took some pics of the green sunfish but I really think I am limited on the amount of uploading I can do here, do you know anything about this?


NANFA Guests are limited in their total photo upload/storage usage. I would suggest that you reduce the resolution of your photos before uploading (the forum is going to only display them at a reduced size anyway).
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

#18 Guest_Eddy Wilson_*

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 04:34 PM

What do I have to do to be a member rather than a guest, make a donation or something?

#19 Guest_Erica Lyons_*

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 04:38 PM

What do I have to do to be a member rather than a guest, make a donation or something?

Yeah, you can do that here: http://www.nanfa.org/join.shtml
The nice thing is that joining NANFA gets you a discount when going to the annual convention, which for the first time in several years is in North Carolina this summer: http://www.nanfa.org...tion/2014.shtml
I'm going! You should go with us. We're gonna snorkel, seine, collect, sample, and have a good time with the native fishes :)

And you get a magazine once every three months, and access to the trading dock. And your money pays for education grants, like the Corcoran grant.

#20 Guest_centrarchid_*

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 04:39 PM

Is the male still over the spawning site?
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