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Water test help.

Started by Guest_Stish_* , May 12 2014 06:14 PM

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#1 Guest_Stish_*

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 06:14 PM

So i have had my aquarium up and running(without fish) for about 3 weeks now. Due to things going on I was not able to purchase a test kit until a couple days ago, therefore I did not add any ammonia or anything to the aquarium. I decided to do a quick test to see where I was at and if by chance anything was going on.

The results I got were Ammonia at about 2.0ppm, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 15ppm and ph 7.6. Is it normal to have nitrates already? I am assuming the nitrites have not formed yet. And I'm thinking the ammonia is coming from a stick I placed in the aquarium.

Edited by Stish, 12 May 2014 - 06:16 PM.

#2 Guest_guyswartwout_*

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 06:38 PM

I think nitrites are less chemically stable than ammonia and nitrate. Maybe that has something to do with it. What is the nitrate level of your tap water?

#3 Guest_Erica Lyons_*

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 07:14 PM

Ammonia's lethal concentration to kill half the population in 72 hours is 0.43 ppm ( source http://www.ncbi.nlm....ps ammonia lc50 ).
Nitrite's LC50 is 345 ppm.
Nitrate's LC50 is 4453 ppm.

Because ammonia is generated from the degrading proteins in the fish flakes we add to the water (or in your case a rotting stick), and because it is so poisonous in such low concentrations, we fishkeepers have to be very careful about ammonia. There are two ways to keep ammonia at 0 ppm: either grow beneficial bacteria to convert ammonia to first nitrite and then nitrate, or grow plants that eat ammonia itself, removing it from the water column.

If you pick up some API Quick Start from Pet Supplies Plus, you would add all of the beneficial bacteria you need to instantly convert ammonia to nitrite to nitrate.
Info: http://www.apifishca...ience_Sheet.pdf

Posted Image

Or you could add some live plants. Info about live plants here: http://www.theaquari...ical_Filtration
One example of a fast grower is ceratophyllum demersum, a native of north america.
Basically, they eat ammonia very rapidly. Table two shows that they'll remove even 25 ppm ammonium (and thus ammonia, which it's in equilibrium with) in four hours. It would take bacteria three or more weeks to compensate for that ammonia. Plants therefore are good to have even if you only have one, because they're safeguards against ammonia spikes like if a fish dies and you don't notice.

#4 Guest_gerald_*

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 08:02 PM

I dont know where your ammonia and nitrate could be coming from, if it's not in your source water and you're not adding any protein-rich fish food. I doubt a "stick" would do it, unless it's a big fresh-cut live branch full of sap (and I presume it isn't). Dead leaves and wood don't usually have enough protein to cause a noticeable ammonia spike, unless you really have a lot of fast-decaying stuff. Anyway, Erica's advice about using fast-growing plants to consume ammonia and nitrate is good, and for most aquarium applications that's the easiest and most reliable way to make a new tank safe for fish. Other good fast-growing easy plants besides Ceratophyllum are Najas (guppy-grass), Limnobium (frogbit), Elodea, and good ol' Duckweed.

#5 Guest_Erica Lyons_*

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 09:14 PM

Other good fast-growing easy plants besides Ceratophyllum are Najas (guppy-grass), Limnobium (frogbit), Elodea, and good ol' Duckweed.

Yup. Myriophyllum pinnatum is native, ludwigia repens is native, potamogetons for example richardsonii, podostemum for the fast flowing river tanks, fissidens fontanus for a native moss for slackwater tanks, vallisneria and echinodorus tenellus for native grassy plants. Hemianthus callitrichoides is native to Cuba. There are lots of plants that will do well. I've found 100 to 200 full spectrum lumens per gallon will grow most of them.

What state or region are you from, Stish? We could look up plants native to your area for you.

#6 Guest_Stish_*

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 09:27 PM

Thanks for the great info! The branch is not a fresh cut live branch, however it is not a really old dead one either, so that could be where it is coming from.

I guess tomorrow I will be getting some plants. Do the plants you two mentioned do well in sand?

#7 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 09:34 PM

No! you need kitty litter.

#8 Guest_Subrosa_*

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 04:38 AM

Test your source water, particularly if you're on a well. I have seen tapwater with NH3 readings approaching 5ppm.

#9 Guest_Yeahson421_*

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 07:11 AM

Stish, Skipjack is entirely kidding, your plants may or may not do well in just sand. Vallisneria is probably your best bet for a rooted plant in a sand only tank, otherwise stick with floaters.

#10 Guest_Erica Lyons_*

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 07:37 AM

Sand is pure silicon dioxide. It has a nice small grain size, which helps roots grow, and is therefore better than pea gravel. If you add Jobes fertilizer sticks to sand once a month ( a source of iron, magnesium, calcium, etc), fertilized sand can grow plants great. Jobes sticks are $1 for 30 at Walmart, so that method is neither expensive nor all that time consuming.

A substrate with nutrients in it may not need fertilization. As Skipjack was joking about, I often recommend pure clay kitty litter because it both has nutrients and is cheap. Soil also works, but unlike kitty litter it must be capped in a few inches of either sand or gravel, or it will float up and make a mess. Here's more info on nutritional content: http://www.thekrib.c...rate-jamie.html

There is a lot of regional variation with both bagged clay and bagged soil. (Discussed here http://forum.nanfa.o...l-kitty-litter/ )
If you want something that is guaranteed X hardness every time, every bag (kitty litter ranges from making the water 0 to 17 DH of hardness), then a specially bagged expensive product like Fluorite® or EcoComplete® does have the advantage of consistency. It would cost around $70 to use it for a 55 gallon tank, versus $4 for kitty litter or $4 for soil + $4 for capping sand/gravel.

#11 Guest_Erica Lyons_*

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 07:39 AM

Oh, also keep in mind lighting. Plants perform photosynthesis, which means they convert light energy to food for themselves. They therefore need light of a certain minimum brightness. I have found that 100 to 200 lumens of full spectrum light per gallon on a timer for 3 hours before work and 5 hours after you get home from work will both grow the plants well and prevent algae from growing. Algae really doesn't do well with divided light hours. *nods*

I discuss lighting in more detail here: http://forum.nanfa.o...ghting-fixture/
Personally, I light my 55 and 75 gallon tanks with two Home Depot four foot long 32 watt Lithonia shop lights, with a total of four Daylight Deluxe bulbs per tank, each one being 2750 lumens of full spectrum light per bulb. This setup costs $60 of initial setup per tank, has an annual maintenance fee of $32 per 10 bulbs, and grows plants great.

#12 Guest_Subrosa_*

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 07:54 AM

Sand is pure silicon dioxide. It has a nice small grain size, which helps roots grow, and is therefore better than pea gravel. If you add Jobes fertilizer sticks to sand once a month ( a source of iron, magnesium, calcium, etc), fertilized sand can grow plants great. Jobes sticks are $1 for 30 at Walmart, so that method is neither expensive nor all that time consuming.

A substrate with nutrients in it may not need fertilization. As Skipjack was joking about, I often recommend pure clay kitty litter because it both has nutrients and is cheap. Soil also works, but unlike kitty litter it must be capped in a few inches of either sand or gravel, or it will float up and make a mess. Here's more info on nutritional content: http://www.thekrib.c...rate-jamie.html

There is a lot of regional variation with both bagged clay and bagged soil. (Discussed here http://forum.nanfa.o...l-kitty-litter/ )
If you want something that is guaranteed X hardness every time, every bag (kitty litter ranges from making the water 0 to 17 DH of hardness), then a specially bagged expensive product like Fluorite® or EcoComplete® does have the advantage of consistency. It would cost around $70 to use it for a 55 gallon tank, versus $4 for kitty litter or $4 for soil + $4 for capping sand/gravel.

Sand is finely divided particles of rock. Unless it's filtration sand, assuming it's silica based can get you into trouble.

#13 Guest_Erica Lyons_*

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 08:14 AM

Sure, okay. Reef based places like the Caribbean have aragonite, a calcium carbonate based sand. But it's hard to imagine getting calcium carbonate based sand on accident. Inland places in general have silicon dioxide sand, so you're going to have to pay extra to cover shipping if you want to buy something not silicon dioxide based. I paid $100 for my aragonite and $4 for my silicon dioxide play sand.

For the record, the aragonite sand grows plants fairly mediocre-ly okay (better than my play sand aquarium, not as well as my clay kitty litter aquariums). The growth rate is not as fast as in clay kitty litter, but they do root and grow. Bacopa monnieri, myriophyllum tuberculatum red, echinodorus tenellus, and a sword plant all survived although didn't grow very quickly. Ceratopteris thallictroides did not like the hard calcium rich water, not one bit, and died en masse in the aragonite tank. In general I harvest plants once a month from my kitty litter tank and once every three months if that from the aragonite tank. I ended up switching to ceratophyllum and other rootless plant species in the aragonite tank so I could have rapid growth and harvesting and sales from it. I guess I could fertilize it and see if that helps. Yeah, there's still myriophyllum tuberculatum red in there. I'll go out and buy some Jobes sticks. *nods to self*

#14 Guest_Stish_*

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 08:53 AM

Again thanks for the advice. Since my aquarium is already running and seems to have started cycling I will just stick with the sand I already have and add some fertilizer. I do have some gravel in places as well.

Thank you to everyone for being so helpful on this site. I will post some pics once I get the plants in.

Edited by Stish, 13 May 2014 - 09:10 AM.

#15 Guest_Subrosa_*

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 09:11 AM

Yes aragonite does come from "reef based" areas. But many "reef based" areas are based upon reefs that were reefs in the distant geological past. Like Idaho and Utah, both of which have large deposits of fossilized aragonite. Assuming construction or play sands are silica based can get you into trouble.

#16 Guest_Erica Lyons_*

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 09:13 AM

Yes aragonite does come from "reef based" areas. But many "reef based" areas are based upon reefs that were reefs in the distant geological past. Like Idaho and Utah, both of which have large deposits of fossilized aragonite.

Whaaa? Awesome. My cichlid tank might not have cost $100 for substrate there. Excellent.
Out of curiosity, what's the tap water DH out there? My tap water where I live in North Carolina's 0 DH, 0 KH, which is why I had to buy the aragonite. (the local play sand doesn't seem to change the hardness any)

"Since my aquarium is already running and seems to have started cycling I will just stick with the sand I already have and add some fertilizer."
Yup, sounds like a good plan. There are other things you could use besides Jobes sticks, but as far as I know they all cost more.

#17 Guest_Subrosa_*

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 11:16 AM

You should have combined you sand purchase with a trip to Disneyworld Erica!

#18 Guest_Erica Lyons_*

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 11:42 AM

lol, yes. When I have kids I'm sure all their vacations will have a fish element for me. "Hey kids, you get to go to Disneyworld! And momma's gonna go sampling for some fish, mkay? Have a fun day with your dad!" bah ha ha

Sorry to derail the topic, Stish. What region are you in? There are some pretty neat plants in just about every part of north america. We could direct you to some that originate near you. I was really surprised when I was out in a stream and I saw ludwigia repens (which I had recently purchased and was growing in my aquarium). Turns out a lot of the favorite plants in the aquarium hobby came from just such stream sampling trips.

#19 Guest_Stish_*

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 08:54 PM

Well I got a few different plants and will check the water in a few days to see how things are moving along. Thanks again to everyone for all the advice.