Hello everyone...I just joined NANFA today and have been getting interested into setting up native tanks...I have a 10 gallon tank and am wondering what would be a suitable species for this size of tank...I want to collect my own fish...I am interested in orangethroat darters,redbelly dace,blackstripe topminnows and other smaller fish native to mid-Missouri
Thanks,
Jacob
New to natives
Started by
Guest_JacobLopez44_*
, May 19 2014 08:58 PM
15 replies to this topic
#2
Guest_keepnatives_*
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Posted 19 May 2014 - 09:19 PM
A few of each of those you listed would do well.Hello everyone...I just joined NANFA today and have been getting interested into setting up native tanks...I have a 10 gallon tank and am wondering what would be a suitable species for this size of tank...I want to collect my own fish...I am interested in orangethroat darters,redbelly dace,blackstripe topminnows and other smaller fish native to mid-Missouri
Thanks,
Jacob
#3
Michael Wolfe
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- Board of Directors
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- North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage
Posted 19 May 2014 - 09:24 PM
Welcome Jacob from the "show me" state! You have named three very good species to put in a small tank. Now obviously you have to be careful about how many fish you put in such a small tank... but yes, a couple of darters and a couple of topminnows would be no problem in a ten gallon (with all the appropriate filtration of course).
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#5
Michael Wolfe
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- North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage
Posted 19 May 2014 - 09:47 PM
What kind of aquarium keeping experience do you have? Its really not that different from other fish, just no heater required. You could easily have 6-8 fish total of the size that you are talking about. The mix is up to you. You could maybe to more, but it all depends on your filtration, experience, and how much tank maintenance you want to do. Personally, I like to keep it simple, so I would go with a lighter stocking density... like I only have three pygmy killifish in a ten gallon right now... but three darters and three topminnows would be a pretty good start.
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#7
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 20 May 2014 - 07:13 AM
So yes, those 6 or seven fish would work as a community tank. But no, you will not get any reproduction in a small tank like that. First of all, the topminnows, while they are cool as aquarium fish in my opinion, are not live bearers like guppies. So you will not see baby fish. And if they did breed (and I am not a topminnow breeding expert) they would lay eggs that would almost certainly get eaten by either the other topminnows or the darters. But hey, this would still be a great tank to look at, and enjoy, and learn about your local fishes... and the planning you are doing, and the getting out in the water and collecting your own fish... that is the kind of learning about nature that you cannot get anywhere else... and is a big part of what NANFA is all about. By the way, if you just want your tank to look good, you also don't need the female darter... they are rather bland in color, and also will not likely breed in such a setup. Go with three males darters and three or four topminnows and really learn about your fish and enjoy the set up... you will be hooked!
And by the way, I'm not sure what part of Missouri you are in, but pay attention around here, you might see a local group getting together in the field and even find someone that could take you out and help you. CHeck out the Regional Outreach sub-forum and see if there are any that are close to you.
And by the way, I'm not sure what part of Missouri you are in, but pay attention around here, you might see a local group getting together in the field and even find someone that could take you out and help you. CHeck out the Regional Outreach sub-forum and see if there are any that are close to you.
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#9
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 20 May 2014 - 09:18 AM
They might go for flakes right away. But for sure you can convert them as you go. But every one likes frozen mysis shrimp and frozen bloodworms (thawed out in a little bit of water and poured slowly onto the surface of the water).
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#10
Guest_Erica Lyons_*
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Posted 20 May 2014 - 09:22 AM
When I added orangethroat darters to my 55 gallon planted swordtail breeding aquarium, all fry production stopped. The darters climbed up into the plants and hunted down every last fry. That's what my profile picture is: a female orangethroat darter waving hello to the camera happily as she sits in the ceratophyllum, hunting and eating xiphophorus babies. So even if you really do have guppies, there won't be any breeding as long as the darters live in the tank.I'm pretty new to aquarium keeping...Would 2 male and 1 female darters work and if I had 3 or 4 blackstripe topminnows would they breed like guppies or no?
If you're super new to aquarium keeping and don't yet know about ammonia wrangling, I wrote up a short introduction to ammonia management here: http://forum.nanfa.o...ater-test-help/
Ammonia's lethal concentration to kill half the population in 72 hours is 0.43 ppm ( source http://www.ncbi.nlm....ps ammonia lc50 ).
Nitrite's LC50 is 345 ppm.
Nitrate's LC50 is 4453 ppm.
Because ammonia is generated from the degrading proteins in the fish flakes we add to the water (or in your case a rotting stick), and because it is so poisonous in such low concentrations, we fishkeepers have to be very careful about ammonia. There are two ways to keep ammonia at 0 ppm: either grow beneficial bacteria to convert ammonia to first nitrite and then nitrate, or grow plants that eat ammonia itself, removing it from the water column.
If you pick up some API Quick Start from Pet Supplies Plus, you would add all of the beneficial bacteria you need to instantly convert ammonia to nitrite to nitrate.
Info: http://www.apifishca...ience_Sheet.pdf
Or you could add some live plants. Info about live plants here: http://www.theaquari...ical_Filtration
One example of a fast grower is ceratophyllum demersum, a native of north america.
Basically, they eat ammonia very rapidly. Table two shows that they'll remove even 25 ppm ammonium (and thus ammonia, which it's in equilibrium with) in four hours. It would take bacteria three or more weeks to compensate for that ammonia. Plants therefore are good to have even if you only have one, because they're safeguards against ammonia spikes like if a fish dies and you don't notice.
But for the record I don't recommend ceratophyllum for 10 gallon tanks. Without roots it is too susceptible to nitrogen starvation. Ceratophyllum just grows sooo fast, it removes all soluble nitrogen from the water column. Ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate drop to 0 ppm and then it starves to death. Nitrate should hover in the measurable region, for example the 10-30 ppm my 55 gallon stays at regardless of how long the tank goes without water changes. This feeds the ceratophyllum and is not overly intolerable to the fish. A single nitrogen atom in the form of nitrate is much less toxic than it is in the form of ammonia.
#12
Guest_BenCantrell_*
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Posted 20 May 2014 - 09:53 AM
A few years ago I had a 10 gallon set up with a hang on back filter rated for a 60+ gallon aquarium. The filter was mounted in the center creating two pretty powerful eddies. I filled up about a third of the tank volume with big rocks and poked hornwort down into the gravel so they looked like rooted plants. I clipped a 150W plant grow light on the rim of the tank using one of these clamp fixtures. I stocked it similar to what you're proposing with orangethroat darters, rainbow daters, greenside darters and blackstripe topminnows. I overstocked it with about 15+ fish to see if the high filtration and plants would keep up with the nitrates. I added filtered water to compensate for evaporation, but I didn't ever do an actual water change. The only deaths were the greenside darters after they wiped out the snail population. I don't think they were able to compete for the bloodworms as well as the other species.
You'll probably realize though that you want to give your fish more room to swim around in. Once you spend money on the filter, light, automatic timer, electricity, and bloodworms, you realize that it's not that big of deal to buy a 30 gallon tank instead of a 10 gallon.
You'll probably realize though that you want to give your fish more room to swim around in. Once you spend money on the filter, light, automatic timer, electricity, and bloodworms, you realize that it's not that big of deal to buy a 30 gallon tank instead of a 10 gallon.
#13
Michael Wolfe
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- Board of Directors
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- North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage
Posted 20 May 2014 - 10:50 AM
Ben, your experience is similar to many others I have heard. I do not think that greensides are a good aquarium fish. They are big and look great. But they are always hungry and don't ever stay full looking in the aquarium and then seem to waste away. Orangthroats, rainbows, heck, even bluebreasts and redlines all seem to be better fits for smaller tanks as they each bloodworms and mysis readily and don't get so big.
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#14
Guest_Skipjack_*
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Posted 20 May 2014 - 05:42 PM
I have always done well with greensides, but I was feeding a ton of live food, and always threw snails in to them. I really think snails are the key. As far as my experience goes, they are the most snail specialized darter species I have kept. It is really fascinating to watch them suck the snail right out of the shell. If you had several tanks with compatible fish, I think rotating the greensides through snail containing tanks could work great. Keep the greensides fat, and the snail population in check. They can really be a useful tool to keep snail populations down. Another thing that may have led to success with keeping greensides healthy was that my tanks were typically very cool in the basement, which might have slowed down their metabolism enough that they did not waste away.
I have never gotten the feeding response with mysis shrimp as I did bloodworms. The darters ate them, but not as voraciously. Just me? Or do others find that bloodworms seem more appetizing to darters?
I have never gotten the feeding response with mysis shrimp as I did bloodworms. The darters ate them, but not as voraciously. Just me? Or do others find that bloodworms seem more appetizing to darters?
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