18 replies to this topic

[Sean Phillips]

On my way home from Lake Erie with a few new natives for my collection. I have nine 2-3" emerald shiners and three 1" yellow perch. I wasn't expecting the perch as I didn't think I could catch them that small but I guess with a number 14 hook and a tiny worm in weeds it is possible to catch them that small. I've researched perch before but I just want to make sure I know all I need to. I'm going to just let them settle tonight and not feed until tomorrow morning or evening. What would be some good foods to feed perch (and the shiners as well if you know) at this size? I plan on feeding bloodworms and brine shrimp by I'm pretty sure perch eat a lot of green matter as well. Also what would be the best acclimation method since Erie water is ph 8.3-8.9 and my home water is 7.6 ? Thanks for the help!

[Sean Phillips]

Actually I just looked on an underwater chemistry buoy data that's not to far from where I got the fish (three buoys actually) and they were reading 8.5, 8.7, and 9.0 so the water is pretty alkaline now. Going to take a long time to acclimate I fear.

[Michael Wolfe]

your shiners will eat anything including flake... and in my experience, I don't think yellow perch eat much greens. When I lived in Ohio and kept a few, they at pretty much the same think that sunfish eat... its just that they are a little more skittish and slow to attack the food. Beacause of this they tend to do better with something that sinks slowly.

[Sean Phillips]

Thanks! I'm acclimating now and they're all still very active so I'm hoping they'll do good,

[Sean Phillips]

They're all settle in to their 14 gallon quarantine bin and doing great. The perch are already getting territories worked out with each other and the shiners are schooling against the current.

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[Sean Phillips]

Ok well I've had 3 shiners die of unknown causes since last night (1 last night and 2 this morning). I hope it's because they're from a batch of baitfish and not because they have a disease. The perch are still doing well though. Going to do a 50% change.

[littlen]

I don't see any filtration on/in your tub. Aeration, while certainly beneficial, isn't the same as filtration. I am going to guess that an ammonia spike is killing your fish. Frequent water changes will help, but without filtration, this problem will persist at the cost of losing more fish.

[Sean Phillips]

I have a pile of seeded gravel and a few decorations in the tub out of my mature 75 gallon to avoid ammonia spike and I've been testing it twice daily and I'm only finding small traces of nitrates. Just lost another one after the water change. It seems to be only the shiners and the perch are are doing well oddly enough, I guess they're just hardier. Everybody was eating last night and this morning too.

[littlen]

Again, you are still lacking filtration. Simply having objects (gravel, decor) from a seeded tank is not filtering your water. If you want your fish to survive, you will need to add a filter of some sort. Ammonia can spike very quickly. That, plus frequent water changes up to 50% at a time are very stressful on your fish. The proof is that they are dying.

[Sean Phillips]

I normally have a sponge filter ready for these tanks but my bullhead will go on a terror spree if I take the one out of my 75 gallon which is why I'm not filtering. If you mean mechanical filtration I'm not a big fan of it personally and half of my tanks run successfully (no dead fish to date in either) on pure bacterial filtration via sponge filters. I'll get another sponge within the next few days though to swap with the one in my 75 and pot the old nature one in the quarantine tank.

[Sean Phillips]

Sponges are the best. I think everyone should keep a couple extra sponge filters running in various tanks just for this purpose. Pull them out and put them in any tank, instant cycle.

That's what I normally do. I actually do have a spare in my 75 now but my bullhead will FLIP out if I take it from him so I need to get another to take it's place so I can take his.

[Sean Phillips]

Still have the 5 remaining shiners and all 3 perch left and they're all feeding and acting normally. I think it was just those few were unhealthy since they were slower to school with the other ones.

[Sean Phillips]

Just moved them to their own 20 tall (24" x 12" x 16"). They're actually about 1.5-1.75" at this point. They all crammed into the same cave even though there's three places to hide in the tank and ate mildly nipping every once and a while but I think they're just getting used to the new setup. They'll stay there until about 6" then go into my 75 gallon. I'm hoping they'll last in the 20 until spring but that's highly unlikely with the growth they've put on in 2 weeks. Didn't want to put them in my 75 in the winter since it's heated then and I know perch prefer cooler water, since they'll go in it though I'm only going to heat it to 73-74 F when they do go in.

[Sean Phillips]

They're still doing good in the 20 but they'll only eat brine shrimp and bloodworms, although I doubt they'll ever convert to dry being wild and simply being yellow perch.

Should I be worried that at this stage in their life, they aren't putting on very much size at all in the 2 weeks or so they've been in their new tank and they're still only 1.5-1.75"? I thought since they're still young they'd be growing faster especially being fed frozen twice daily.

On a side note with the shiners, only have 1 left. That one is doing great though. I can't determine why the others died but the night before I'd find dead ones I'd always hear lots of splashing in the tank and the only decoration (a large fake bridge) would always be knocked over which is weird since it's heavy and the only fish in the tank were some 2-3" lightweight shiners. I'm wondering if they died from ramming off decor to hard. Int the last four dead ones in my freezer so I could attempt to find out why they died but they're bodies aren't showing anything. I'd like to use them as frozen feeders for my bullhead but I'm not sure I want to take the risk if it turns out they had some internal parasite or the like.

Edited by Everything Fish, 22 August 2014 - 07:46 PM.

[mattknepley]

Fish don't usually splash like that for fun. Since, at this size, we can safely assume no reproduction is occuring, and there are no nocturnal food stuffs appearing in the tank; for lots of splashing to occur someone is probably getting a butt whoopin'. (Or trying to avoid one.) I wouldn't put it past your perch to be raisin' some cain. They are very predatory, even as small fry. They are pretty good natured with other perch when small, but I've seen tiny ones go for lures and/or baits pretty much their size.

One other thought; do you have cats? They can be phenomenally creative in killing aquarium fish.

[Sean Phillips]

Fish don't usually splash like that for fun. Since, at this size, we can safely assume no reproduction is occuring, and there are no nocturnal food stuffs appearing in the tank; for lots of splashing to occur someone is probably getting a butt whoopin'. (Or trying to avoid one.) I wouldn't put it past your perch to be raisin' some cain. They are very predatory, even as small fry. They are pretty good natured with other perch when small, but I've seen tiny ones go for lures and/or baits pretty much their size.

One other thought; do you have cats? They can be phenomenally creative in killing aquarium fish.

The perch have been in a separate tank since back when I still had 5 shiners and I've heard splashing since I moved them out. I do have cats but I wish I could take a picture of the barricade I out up and in the bin to keep them out: patio chair cushions around the bin with pool filter parts around the cushions and egg crate with pvc for weight on top. No way my cats were getting in that.

[mattknepley]

Whoops, I thought they were together. You mention the bridge is knocked over in the mornings. Is it possible the bridge could be falling somehow, and this freaks your shiners out? Probably not, but to paraphrase Sherlock Holmes, keep ruling out the likely causes until the most unlikely becomes the obvious...

That said, maybe they just spazz out. I had several Cyprinella I qt-ed in a 5 gallon bucket. Most of the time things were calm in there. Every once in a while, all heck busted loose. I ruled out all the likely possibilities until the only possibility left-to me the most unlikely- was that they just went ape doo every once in a while, for no reason...