the future of invasives

I've been pondering the future ecological integrity of North American watersheds, particularly the Great Lakes, and with more and more non-indigenous species and climate change becoming more of a reality, I've been wondering whether or not we're fighting a losing battle here. These two factors coupled with one another are enough to destablize any food web... Are we to a point where we have a synergistic effect, with each new NIS making it even easier for others to follow? What should we do about it, if anything? I don't mean to be a downer here, really, but I'm very interested in everyone's opinions regarding this topic.

I've been pondering the future ecological integrity of North American watersheds, particularly the Great Lakes, and with more and more non-indigenous species and climate change becoming more of a reality, I've been wondering whether or not we're fighting a losing battle here. These two factors coupled with one another are enough to destablize any food web... Are we to a point where we have a synergistic effect, with each new NIS making it even easier for others to follow? What should we do about it, if anything? I don't mean to be a downer here, really, but I'm very interested in everyone's opinions regarding this topic.

Beat head on wall then go in a dark room and cry....This is my current way of managing the current situation on NIS.

I really do not know if, at this time, any serious effort could be made to fix the issues we already have except for education to reduce the likelihood of further spreading of established NIS. These are a lost battle and now all we can do is contain the fire and destruction to a limited area.

The solution to the "not here yet" is to identify the potential vector of introduction then eliminate it as well as Increase survelliance and develop a rapid response plan before it arrives. The current habit of "dealing with it later" is not the appropriate response to new found introductions. We typically know years ahead what is coming our way or what species to be alert and ready for. There is no excuse left for not taking preventative measure now to curb the problem.

Beat head on wall then go in a dark room and cry....This is my current way of managing the current situation on NIS.

I really do not know if, at this time, any serious effort could be made to fix the issues we already have except for education to reduce the likelihood of further spreading of established NIS. These are a lost battle and now all we can do is contain the fire and destruction to a limited area.

The solution to the "not here yet" is to identify the potential vector of introduction then eliminate it as well as Increase survelliance and develop a rapid response plan before it arrives. The current habit of "dealing with it later" is not the appropriate response to new found introductions. We typically know years ahead what is coming our way or what species to be alert and ready for. There is no excuse left for not taking preventative measure now to curb the problem.

if what we are worried about is the species its self why dont we try to keep indangered fish in captivity or in isolated ponds? I mean if we had done that we might have been able to save the pluepike or maybe some of the other pupfishes out west (I know they did that to the devils hole pupfish but why dont we do that we other fish?
zebra mussels are doing very well now but it will fit into the niche soon and the remaining natives will finaly prey on them.
so I would say let it work itself out is ok but why dont we just put covers over the ballasts and other pervention rather than treatment

There is a lot of talk going around my school that we should try to "fix" things biologically by adding new predators like they did in the case of chinook salmons to control the alewives. It also came up in a seminar I'm taking that we might want to start dumping phosphorous back in the great lakes so that native planktivores won't be starved into extinction by the dreissenids (seriously). I think I'm one of the few who believe that the less we screw around with things to mitigate the impacts of invasives we already have, the better off we'll be. And meanwhile, while we're busy "fixing" everything, more and more NIS are slipping in... I think I'm going to take that beat head against wall and cry approach now

I think I'm one of the few who believe that the less we screw around with things to mitigate the impacts of invasives we already have, the better off we'll be.

Count me in with the few, too, then. This approach usually fails. Ask the Australians about their cane toad problem.

You are not alone!

Histrix, I don't know who's teaching the seminar you're taking but he or she is a charlatan. Severe "playing god" like dumping phosphates into the Great Lakes is breathtakingly stupid. But I suspect there are journals that would publish such ideas with a straight face.

Histrix, I don't know who's teaching the seminar you're taking but he or she is a charlatan. Severe "playing god" like dumping phosphates into the Great Lakes is breathtakingly stupid. But I suspect there are journals that would publish such ideas with a straight face.

It came up in the discussion portion of the seminar from someone taking the class, but nobody really criticized what a stupid idea it actually was... which scared me

OK, I'll calm down, if the idea was pitched from the floor it's not quite as goofy. But even so...

OK, I'll calm down, if the idea was pitched from the floor it's not quite as goofy. But even so...

Actually, I think it's scarier this way, because these are the potential future resource policy makers of America, not some quack who's about 3 years away from retirement. I can only hope nobody else said much anything because they felt that the comment was too stupid to waste their time on

Skinner: Well, I was wrong. The lizards are a godsend.
Lisa: But isn't that a bit short-sighted? What happens when we're
overrun by lizards?
Skinner: No problem. We simply release wave after wave of Chinese
needle snakes. They'll wipe out the lizards.
Lisa: But aren't the snakes even worse?
Skinner: Yes, but we're prepared for that. We've lined up a fabulous
type of gorilla that thrives on snake meat.
Lisa: But then we're stuck with gorillas!
Skinner: No, that's the beautiful part. When wintertime rolls around,
the gorillas simply freeze to death.

Skinner: Well, I was wrong. The lizards are a godsend.
Lisa: But isn't that a bit short-sighted? What happens when we're
overrun by lizards?
Skinner: No problem. We simply release wave after wave of Chinese
needle snakes. They'll wipe out the lizards.
Lisa: But aren't the snakes even worse?
Skinner: Yes, but we're prepared for that. We've lined up a fabulous
type of gorilla that thrives on snake meat.
Lisa: But then we're stuck with gorillas!
Skinner: No, that's the beautiful part. When wintertime rolls around,
the gorillas simply freeze to death.

One of the best Simpsons ever....

More thoughfully...

So long as there is global or even regional trade, there will be no end to introductions. So long as there is trade, the Great Lakes, the Mississippi, Ohio, Illinois, Tennessee and Missouri will be trecherously modified so that there is no system stability, thus leaving it wide open for new, invasive, disturbance loving species. So long as there is trade, God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I can not change, courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference... Just for today.

There are plenty of systems that are less altered, or in recovery. They are resilient to invasion, they cope with new invaders like they're some kind of joke. In fact, I'm going to make a whole dissertation out of it

There's no need to despair over what may seem like the big picture when there's thousands of small and even large successes to be seen. And better yet... Taking time to point those success out to those who think environmentalism is all about gloom and doom.

Maybe then they'll see the reason for action, instead of just roiling in apathy or rationalizations.

Todd