21 replies to this topic

[Sean Phillips]

Going over pictures from scuba and snorkeling this year on my computer and most of the times have been at Lake Erie and my local quarry with once at my local creek and once at my local river.

I found a few pictures I took of a minnow (appears to be a shiner of some species) that I just can't figure out what they are. I looked up all kinds of photos of local minnows but just can't figure it out. These were plentiful in 1-2.5' of water over a stretch of gravel with a few silty patches in the Alleghent River (below lock 3) in Pittsburgh, PA.

Any ideas what they might be? I'm trying to make a reference guide to local species from my pictures but can't figure out these guys.

Apologies for the bad shots, sealife cameras don't have the best focus.

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[smbass]

Knowing what is abundant in the lower Allegheny/upper Ohio River I'll hazard an educated guess of emerald shiners. They and channel shiners are probably the two most abundant species in the upper Ohio River and I am making the assumption that they still are in the lower Allegheny 30 some miles upstream. The fish in your photos are long and slender much more like emerald shiners than the short and fat channel shiners.

[Matt DeLaVega]

Probably difficult to get to species, but likely a Luxilus, maybe Cyprinella.

[Matt DeLaVega]

Listen to Brian before me for sure. I am just going on the striking horizontal line.

[Sean Phillips]

I don't think they're emeralds. They could be but I've kept emerald shiners before and they look different than these guys were. These minnows appeared to have a larger mouth than emeralds.

[Sean Phillips]

They appear slightly similar to Mimic shiners and a bit like channel shiners. I'll see if I can research some more info on local species.

[Isaac Szabo]

Emerald shiners do have large mouths - certainly larger than mimics and channels. Could it be that the fish you kept before were not actually emeralds? Brian's answer is likely the best you will get from these photos. He is an expert on the fish in your area.

[Sean Phillips]

Emerald shiners do have large mouths - certainly larger than mimics and channels. Could it be that the fish you kept before were not actually emeralds? Brian's answer is likely the best you will get from these photos. He is an expert on the fish in your area.

I'm fairly certain they were emeralds I were keeping, they were from Lake Erie which has a HUGE population of emeralds and they didn't last to long in captivity either since I've heard emeralds aren't that hardy. I'll see if my buddy has any pictures of them on his camera from that day. For now I'll just call them Notropis sp. "Allegheny River".

[Sean Phillips]

Ok, well I'm fairly certain that they're mimic shiners after looking at pictures of mimics, emeralds, channels, and sands.

[Sean Phillips]

Yep, they're mimics, I'm about 99% sure at this point. Thanks for the assistance guys!

[Matt DeLaVega]

Mimics are not shiny shiners. They have a coloration closer to a bluntnose minnow. I cant tell you what it is, but I could rule out creek chub, bluntnose minnow, stoneroller,suckers, sand shiner, and darters. I would bet that Brian has it right. He honestly may ID fifty thousand fish a year in Ohio alone.

[Sean Phillips]

Mimics are not shiny shiners. They have a coloration closer to a bluntnose minnow. I cant tell you what it is, but I could rule out creek chub, bluntnose minnow, stoneroller,suckers, sand shiner, and darters. I would bet that Brian has it right. He honestly may ID fifty thousand fish a year in Ohio alone.

Good point. They were rather shiny. I only felt that they might not be emeralds since they appeared to have slightly taller bodies than emeralds and the emeralds I kept had a fairly dark back where as these were solid silver with an irredescent stripe down the middle.

[smbass]

Lake Erie has 3 Notropis species that are found lake wide in huge abundances. You could have had any of the three or all three when you caught them before. Emeralds, mimics, and spottail shiners are all very common in Lake Erie. You also can get bluntnose minnow and spotfin shiner along the beaches pretty easily.

I can tell from your photos and from my knowledge of the area that these are without a doubt one of three species. They are definitely not mimic or channel shiners due to body proportions. These are a Notropis and there are three in the area that have that long slender appearance... Emerald, Silver, and Rosyface Shiners. I still think these are emeralds based off where you caught them because the other two are less prone to show up in big rivers.

[NateTessler13]

...These are a Notropis and there are three in the area that have that long slender appearance... Emerald, Silver, and Rosyface Shiners. I still think these are emeralds based off where you caught them because the other two are less prone to show up in big rivers.

My first thought was emerald shiner (due to the width of the body). Upstream near the Kinzua Dam near Warren, PA, silver shiner were also abundant. It's one of those two species. 98% sure it's emerald shiner.

[Sean Phillips]

Was just texting my friend and I can't explain how overjoyed I am that he got pictures if these guys too because this little fish has been annoying me to no end that I can't 100%. ID it (I get annoyed over little things you can see )! I was skeptical that he would even see them since he was a good ways down river and was over sand whereas I was over large gravel but I guess these guys are abundant everywhere. He got way better pictures than me.  image.jpg   65.01KB   2 downloads  image.jpg   67.36KB   0 downloads  image.jpg   46.76KB   1 downloads

[smbass]

I am confident those are emerald shiners.

[Sean Phillips]

I am confident those are emerald shiners.

Alright, after looking at local Notropis for this long they're the closest thing I can match with them. Is it possible the the height of the body can vary with watershed or drainage? I snorkel with them right off the beach our cottage in Erie and they're much darker backed and elongate up there than these were.

[smbass]

Might just be the difference in the lighting conditions or even just a difference between living in river and a lake. Some fish take on slightly different body forms based off their environment, things like food availability and amount of flow they are exposed to can be factors.

[Matt DeLaVega]

That streambed is odd, can't really put my finger on what it is, but it is quite unique.

[Sean Phillips]

Might just be the difference in the lighting conditions or even just a difference between living in river and a lake. Some fish take on slightly different body forms based off their environment, things like food availability and amount of flow they are exposed to can be factors.

True, I guess they were Emeralds then, beautiful ones at that. Maybe I'll grab some next time the river thaws out.