25 replies to this topic

[Sean Phillips]

I know this probably isn't the right place to post this but I wasn't sure where this would go. So does anyone here keep any North America native animals other than fish? Fish will always be my all time favorite and nothing can compete with them, but I'm now getting into other natives as well like birds, amphibians, reptiles, etc. I know birds can't be kept because of the Migratory Bird act but I have enough birds at my feeder on a daily basis that I've started calling them "my" birds . But I'm pretty positive that most reptiles and amphibians can be kept so does anyone keep any? I'm debating getting a dozen of so tadpoles from my local lake this spring-summer to grow them out to frogs for a small outdoor pond I'm putting in (100-300ish gallons). Mud puppies and other aquatic salamanders are pretty cool to so I think it'd be neat to keep them sometime, the same goes for turtles. Also, are there any good website out there for birdwatching/IDing as I'm trying to compile a list of all the birds in my area and going picture through picture in my Audubon book is taking a very long time!

[Chasmodes]

I used to keep a few salamanders, had them live for many years.  They were really cool and became quite tame, always coming out of their caves when they saw me to beg for food.  I had the following species:

 

Northern Red Salamander (Pseudotriton ruber) - beautiful and my favorite.

Spotted Salamander (Ambystoma maculatum) - lot's of personality, ate like pigs (and also are cannibalistic)

Marbled Salamander (Ambystoma opacum) - smaller than the spotted, but fat, and full of personality, a little more shy than the others

 

They ate mealworms, crickets, earthworms and any insects that I could find, and especially loved the maggots and waxworms that were leftover from my previous winter's ice fishing.  Their favorite food was probably earthworms.  I could feed them by hand to them, and they'd literally run across the tank to get them.

 

I also had a gray tree frog for a while before it escaped and never found it.

 

I kept them in my version of a vivarium, a 55 gallon aquarium with a small "pond" that was just a depression in the gravel, which was cool because that kept the "land" gravel moist for the salamanders.  I had a pump that would pull the water through the gravel and the output was a small waterfall over pieces of slate.  That is where the red salamander loved to hang out.

 

Maintenance was easy...frequent water changes (only kept about 5-10 gallons of water in the 55 at most), clean the front glass, and most importantly keep a tight lid on it.  Not only did the frog escape, but these guys are escape artists too.  I didn't lose any, but one was on it's way out when I figured out his escape route (a hole in my top that used to be for an aquarium heater), that I plugged up to prevent further escape.  I'd also manually scoop up dung every couple days that I found.

 

My only salamander deaths came as a result of cannibalism.  The biggest culprit was my 8" long spotted salamander.  It ate at least three other salamanders in its lifetime that I knew of.  Some of the other missing ones were probably due to his appetite, but could have been the others cannibalizing as well.  I had two red salamanders at one time, but the biggest one ate the other one after a month.  The largest spotted salamander ate his last roommate and died a year later for reasons that I never really figured out.  He seemed fat and healthy from what I could tell, and ate well up to that last day.  I didn't do an autopsy, but my guess is that he swallowed some gravel that he couldn't pass.

 

I had a box turtle that someone brought me that I nursed back to health (had a big sore on it's leg).  I put Neosporin on it every day and it healed up within a couple weeks, and then I let it go.  It ate earthworms, but man did it love to eat slugs.  That turtle would chase those slugs down and devour them in no time, leaving a slimy mess all over it's beak.  It was amazing to watch.

 

During my salamander hunts that I'd take my daughter on when she was growing up, in addition to the ones that I brought home above, we caught and released many dusky, red-backed, and a few other species.  I managed to catch, photo and release what was probably a Jefferson Salamander (Ambystoma jeffersonianum) but may have been a blue-spotted salamander (Ambystoma laterale) because the spots were very bright blue.  I sent the picture to a friend of mine that worked in the parks department, who then sent it to an expert (don't know the name) but never heard back.  No matter if it was a Jefferson or a blue-spotted, it was rare for where I found it.  I haven't found one since.

 

As a kid, I've kept a few species of toads and frogs as well for long periods of time.  All of them ended up being traded to a friend of mine for Texas cichlid/Salvini hybrids.

[Chasmodes]

By the way, I kept the turtle in a 10 gallon aquarium and used an eye dropper to give it water every day or make little puddles on the floor.  No gravel, bare bottom, no decorations.  Why?  It was messy and knocked over everything I tried to put in there (like a tray of water).  I had to clean the tank twice a day, morning and evening.  Feeding it was easy, but cleaning up after it was a pain.  I was glad when it healed and was released.

 

I would not recommend keeping them as pets for this reason.  Having gravel or any other substrate in a tank with them would be a messy and stinky situation.

 

Had he not been injured when brought to me, I would have released it somewhere nearby in the woods.

[Matt DeLaVega]

This is borderline off topic. I really do not mind it a bit, but lets keep it to aquatic and semiaquatic native species. Things we might find while looking for fish. Let's not stray into raccoons or squirrels. Cool?

[Evan P]

I have kept a map turtle, leopard and green frogs, and a few gray tree frogs. The map turtle did well for about 2 years, but after last winter it just never got back into its summer feeding schedule and slowly withered away. The leopards and greens do well but are very messy and overall just bad aquarium inhabitants. The tree frogs have done incredibly well and are a fun addition to the fish room. I hope to add one to my paludarium when I finally figure out a cover.

[Sean Phillips]

This is borderline off topic. I really do not mind it a bit, but lets keep it to aquatic and semiaquatic native species. Things we might find while looking for fish. Let's not stray into raccoons or squirrels. Cool?

Lol, sorry Matt, I'm not on many forums

[mikez]

I have a small painted turtle and yellow bellied slider both caught while fishing or netting. They share a 20 long with a 3 inch pumpkinseed which is the only fish that has been tough enough to fit in. I love that tank and my boys do too. We often buy feeder fish or catch small shiners, or cull my mollies, to see the mad feeding frenzy when added to the tank. I also frequently collect excess snails from my other tanks and dump them in. The turtles seem to relish crunching them up and the shells they swallow add essential calcium to their diet.

I also have a green tree frog which came in unintentionally as a tiny tadpole hitchhiking in some pond plants I brought back from Florida. It grew out in a cooler full of rotting plants that I ignored for a long time. When I finally got around to emptying and cleaning the cooler, I found the tiny tadpole had thrived and become a large tadpole which I didn't have the heart to get rid of. I didn't even know at the time what species it was but set it up in my 2.5 gallon window tank with some least killies. It metamorphed soon after and I raised it up to adult size by cultivating wild fruit flies in store bought cups of apple sauce and pieces of various fruit. [my kitchen was buzzing with bugs, luckily I live alone. A married person would do well to buy the expensive cultures of flightless fruitflies. I'm too cheap and lazy].

My frog is now a year old and full grown. She [I'm praying it's a she 'cause male green tree frog's have a loud and unpleasant call which will not be fun in my small apartment. We'll find out once hot weather gets here], anyway, she/it now lives in a 30 extra tall terrarium with an anole and a gecko also from my Florida trip. I and my boys also get a lot of enjoyment from that tank and I usually buy a bunch of crickets for Friday night when the boys get here. Feeding time is an event.

I should say that I have years of experience keeping herps ranging from snakes to lizards to frogs and salamanders [had a large collection back when I had a house]. They demand special care and are not for everyone. Please use the abundant online resources to study up on your critters be obtaining them and be sure to check your state laws if you plan to take them from the wild.

[Matt DeLaVega]

No it is fine Sean. I brought up my point before another moderator was forced to deal with it. I think we are good, and can all find it interesting, and kind of on topic if we keep it to streamside critters. I hate to deal with this kind of stuff. I am likely to be on the lenient side, but since we are NANFA, it is a fish forum, and we should not stray too far. But I do not think there is a member on here that does not take time to check out salamanders, frogs, crayfish, turtles, water snakes, and aquatic insects and insect larvae when they run across them. So, by default we allow some talk of this type.

[Matt DeLaVega]

I have also had collections of a wide variety of herps in the past. I love them. I do ask additionally if you guys want to talk a bit about this, that you please bring it back to this thread. Let's not start multiple threads on this, or we will have to cut it out in order to stay with our mission.

 

I do strongly suggest bird watching, and enjoying all types of wildlife. That is just the kind of people we are. If you are fishing, and get a great photo of an osprey, sure include it with your fish photos. Don't however start posting photos of junco's at your backyard bird feeder. I am sure you guys can get where to draw the line.

[Moontanman]

Mud turtles are pretty cool and they stay very small.. 

[don212]

i brought a common musk turtle in the house, better out than in nothing that small and still alive should smell that bad 

[mikez]

i brought a common musk turtle in the house, better out than in nothing that small and still alive should smell that bad 

 

Be careful keeping musk turtles. They are good captives and small, but amazingly good climbers and escape artists. Need a covered tank.

[FirstChAoS]

I have only kept fish.

 

Sadly my experience duck keeping when younger showed them to be very messy animals, because the native ducks sold here seem very tempting. http://www.mallardlanefarms.com/

[mattknepley]

Green tree frogs and anoles make interesting pets, though mostly at feeding time. Corn snakes are very well behaved, beautiful native critters too, though not terribly active,either. They like to bust loose, too.

Matt D, you moderated this most appropriately. Thank you to all the mods for handling stuff like this. It ain't fun to have to be the "line drawer".

[Matt DeLaVega]

I have kept many herps. Mostly snakes, but some monitor lizards, tegus, and a few other small lizards as well. My passion though, besides large constrictors, and a few venomous (timber rattlesnakes, and copperheads) was hognose snakes. I had a collection of eastern, southern, western, Mexican, and the South American tri-color hogs. I also kept some of the unrelated Madagascar hognose snakes. Favorites were the southerns and tri-colors. I was fascinated by their rear fangs and mild venom. Once I scented my pinkie finger with a pinkie mouse and let a southern chew on it for about 10 minutes. Experiment worked. I was fairly well envenomated. Finger doubled in size, and hand swelled pretty well too. Of course this was in my younger crazier days about 8 years ago. Snake venom is really interesting. Newer studies are showing that most snakes are venomous. Most have mild venom and poor delivery systems, but have venom glands. In the US, if I remember correctly, only king, rat, racers and bull snakes and those closely related are completely non venomous. There may be a couple others. Notably venomous of the "non-venomous" snakes are water snakes, hognose, garters, ringnecks, and of course the Lyre and cat eyed snake. If tou have ever been bitten by a water snake (Nerodia) You will notice that the wound bleeds like a stuck pig. This is not just anti coagulant saliva as was once believed, but is actual venom which is quite toxic to fish and amphibians.

[Moontanman]

I would love to have dwarf mudpuppies and or dwarf sirens, so far they remain elusive. 

[Matt DeLaVega]

I would love to have dwarf mudpuppies and or dwarf sirens, so far they remain elusive. 

You have been looking for the sirens for years. I think lesser sirens show up here from time to time. http://market.kingsn...dex.php?cat=126

 

There are some listed, but the species is unknown. And there are some greaters and amphiuma as well.

[Moontanman]

You have been looking for the sirens for years. I think lesser sirens show up here from time to time. http://market.kingsn...dex.php?cat=126

 

There are some listed, but the species is unknown. And there are some greaters and amphiuma as well.

 

 

I can get the large sirens here and amphiuma, if the first picture in that link is the siren they are selling it is the dwarf, dwarfs have four toes on their feet. Oops I got that backwards, they are greater or lesser. the dwarfs have three toed feet.. 

 

In their range they are sold as bait, hard to see how they could be charging $30

[Moontanman]

They sell them here: $50

 

http://www.reptilesn...warf-siren.html

[Kanus]

Oh  boy, I grew up keeping all manner of native animals and continue to this day, though it's mostly fish these days. My very first aquarium was loaded with red swamp crayfish caught from the local slough in California. I've kept California newts and Alligator lizards (when I was a kid) and many species of snake (mostly kingsnakes, though I currently have a WC Craig Co Virginia Cornsnake). I've experimented with musk turtles a bit and can vouch for them being quite amazing climbers and escape artists. I had an amphiuma over the summer than recently passed away from a strange fungal infection. I would recommend sirens much more highly. The amphiuma was almost always totally buried in the substrate and very sedentary and boring. I actually kept some larger (1-1.5 ft)  sirens in a community stream tank (set up like Dr. Crail would, with sluggish spots too) and they were absolutely fascinating. They often were front and center in the tank, playing in the current. They adapted well to frozen food and would also eat pellets and flake (if it was caught in rocks or plants). I also kept some of those dwarf waterdogs from the NC convention in 2007. They were secretive, but I saw them occasionally at feeding time, and did well enough to where when I broke the tank down to move a few years later, after draining the water and removing the last piece of driftwood, there they were huddled under it. I hadn't seen them in months and thought they had bit the dust.

 

Since my initial passion before I discovered fish was insects, I've kept many many over the years and occasionally raise a batch of luna moths or other large silkmoths if I happen across an adult female (if you see them flying around, they've already mated and will lay fertile eggs in a brown paper bag). Lots of other ones too, far too many to list.

 

I currently have two eastern newts and a large predaceous diving beetle, along with CB California kingsnakes and the cornsnake. I've kept watersnakes (actually bought from a pet store in California for $15) and don't recommend them. I had no experience with them in the wild at the time, but the attitude does NOT go away in captivity!