11 replies to this topic

[Kazonak]

Well, I was in Spartanburg SC yesterday, visiting some old friends. We went for a walk later in the afternoon and ventured over a creek! I looked down and I saw a good sized hole with loads of minnows residing there. I could see they were just beginning to color up, so later that day I came back after visiting a bit longer. On my way from leaving my friend's house I made stop by the stream. I didn't have very much equipment so I couldn't catch very many. But after about twenty minutes I had caught enough to satisfy me. I sorted out what I wanted and headed on my way. I wasn't looking for color but ones with the fewest defects, parasites, or infections (either fungal or bacterial). In the end I Kept four fish out of the lot and released to rest. These I photographed and have posted here:

 

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And this is what I used to photograph them:

 

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 IMG_2599.JPG   118.65KB   0 downloads

 

I'm just having a little trouble nailing down what species they are. I think they're either Greenhead or Yellowfin shiners, but I can't tell between. Does anyone else have a guess or know?

 

P.S. i don't know why some of the pictures turned out upsidown. I'm rather new here, should I just delete and repost them in future topics?

[Matt DeLaVega]

I would guess yellowfin, but I am not from there. Don't worry about the upside down photos, even upside down they are very good ID photos, so that in itself is great. Michael might be able to flip them for you if he wants. Good job.

[Michael Wolfe]

The fins look yellow to me... but this is several peoples favorite argument... the actual taxonomy is not well worked out, and there are exceptions to most of the rules (yellow fins one greenheads, white fins on yellowfins over here in Atlanta).  So you may get a bunch of opinions.  Regardless, these are some of the best aquarium fishes anywhere... they are hardy... and they will color up over a cool water change or a good meal.  Good catch for you!  I have a bunch of yellowfins from over here in Athens, and enjoy them everyday.

 

I certainly can help with your pictures.

[mattknepley]

You got that photo tank built- nice!

Michael's right, these buggers tend to enjoy a not-so-consistent dress code; and their taxonomy is being sorted through still. I am a little surprised Michael didn't remind you to know where your feet were when you caught them. Fritz's book has the dividing line for Yellowfins (Notropis lutipinnis) and Greenheads (N. chlorocephalus) as running through our back yards. In the Saluda sub-basin and eastward they are chlorocephalus; in the drainages west of the Saluda they are lutipinnis. (Until further notice.) Since you were in Spartanburg, they are Greenheads.

[Michael Wolfe]

... I am a little surprised Michael didn't remind you to know where your feet were when you caught them.

That is one of my favorite identification techniques! So they are green heads!

[mattknepley]

That is one of my favorite identification techniques! So they are green heads!

You taught me well, Obi-Wolfe!

[gerald]

HOWEVER -- the type locality for greenhead is in the upper Catawba River in NC, and the Broad/Saluda basin form is a little different from "true" greenhead.  So "greenhead" and "yellowfin" might be two highly variable species, or pehaps 3, 4, or more species.  NC ichthyologists have been referring to the Broad River form of greenhead "Notropis sp. cf chlorocephalus" for many years.  Anybody know the latest news of Mollie Cashner's research on this complex?

[Dustin]

There is still quite a bit of confusion regarding these guys.  The last I heard from Mollie was that she really wasn't sure what to think.  She has since become a professor at a different school so I don't know where she stands on it.  Edisto River westward is safely yellowfin for the moment though highly variable.  Upper Catawba is safely greenhead, but oddly, lower Catawba is not.  All the mess in between from Lower Catawba, to Lynches/Black, and Santee are all the "cf" species or suite of species.  Interestingly, the upper Saluda fish in the mountains may be yellowfins, possibly due to a stream capture event.  

 

The short answer to your original questions is, yes, you have yellowfin or greenhead or something in between.

[Kanus]

I can confidently say that these do not look like N. chlorocephalus from the upper Catawba, but I have little to no experience with any of the other flavors.

[Kazonak]

Wow, I post something, turn around and WAM! Everybody's here to help! Thanks Guys! Once again Nanfa has proven more reliable than my local fish & game. To put a lable in it, because of the location I'm going to settle with Greenhead shiner. I'm sure there might be info in the future to the contrary, but for now I'll leave it at greenhead. Thanks again everybody! 

[Dustin]

I think you are most safe in saying they are the cf. chlorocephalus based on your location, but they sure do look like the Savannah and Edisto lutipinnis up in your area.  Your local fish and game info really depends on who you're asking.  If you are asking the game warden/law enforcement folks, then they have no idea, outside of minnow for the most part.  The non-game folks are very good though and are relatively close to you out of the Clemson area.

[gerald]

The whole yellowfin/greenhead complex are common and conspicuous in small gravelly creeks, and there's a good chance they've been seined up and moved around as bait over the past century or more.  So populations may not be evolutionarily pure.  Redlip shiners from the Yadkin basin have been introduced several places in the upper Catawba, and have hybridized with "true" greenheads.  Streams between Mt Holly and Lincolnton NC have lots of redlip x greenhead hybrids.  Yellowfin x greenhead hybrids would of course be much harder to detect.   If populations have been mixed around, it may now be too late to ever really know just how many "species" there might once have been.