Green Sunfish

Hello to you all
A quick introduction, im Steve and im from the south east of the UK.
I have a good sized garden pond and i have two green sunfish in there. God only knows where they came from, ive certainly never bought them, and hardly anyone here in the uk have heard of them. They are now extremely tame and will take worms etc straight from my hand. I have many other fish ranging from koi to goldfish and the sunfish are not aggressive at all towards any of them. Ive had them in the pond for about 6 or 7 years now and they are about 4 inches long. They are beautifully coloured and are very healthy.
I understand that they are quite a common fish in the USA, but can anyone tell me where i can get them here in the UK? I would love more of them in my pond. They are fantastic fish to keep and anyone who visits me, with an interest in pondfish, are totally amazed by my sunfish Especially at how tame they (and all of my fish) are.
Thanks in advance for any help on this matter.

It is interesting to have someone from the UK here. Welcome, Steve. I wouldn't have a clue where you can get these fish in the UK. Hopefully somebody here can help you, but I'd be surprised. Fish are usually shipped by people on this board by US Postal Service Priority Mail. However, it is against US Postal Service code to ship fish internationally. So, does anybody know if fish can be shipped internationally by UPS, FedEx, DHL, or some other carrier? If so, many of us could probably send you a green sunfish, or any other US native fish for that matter.

It's nice to see someone with an appreciation for sunfish. From what I hear they are quite popular in Europe...can't say the same is true for here. I honestly would not know how you could get more. IIRC the sale and shipping of most NA natives is banned in parts of Europe for fear of introductions.

Hello to you all
A quick introduction, im Steve and im from the south east of the UK.
I have a good sized garden pond and i have two green sunfish in there. God only knows where they came from, ive certainly never bought them, and hardly anyone here in the uk have heard of them. They are now extremely tame and will take worms etc straight from my hand. I have many other fish ranging from koi to goldfish and the sunfish are not aggressive at all towards any of them. Ive had them in the pond for about 6 or 7 years now and they are about 4 inches long. They are beautifully coloured and are very healthy.
I understand that they are quite a common fish in the USA, but can anyone tell me where i can get them here in the UK? I would love more of them in my pond. They are fantastic fish to keep and anyone who visits me, with an interest in pondfish, are totally amazed by my sunfish Especially at how tame they (and all of my fish) are.
Thanks in advance for any help on this matter.

Curious, six or seven years and only four inches in the balmy southeastern UK. Even females have a time stunting like that. Are you certain you have only 2 now? Angle your buddies out and see if you still have two. If typical green sunfish; they are likely consuming their pond mates offspring. Your local koi / goldfish provider could have green sunfish as a contaminant in his / her production pond. Check your local stream. Green sunfish seem to thrive in degraded urban ditches.

I would agree that it is likely you may be able to find them in Europe as introduced populations, they are very tolerant fish and they certainly are the most likely sunfish to show up in feeder tanks, usually in with goldfish here in the US. I'm no expert on what has and hasn't been introduced in Europe but I find it hard to believe that there wouldn't be introduced green sunfish populations and many other sunfish species.

Hi all and thankyou for all your replies.
The size i quoted for my sunfish is the body size. I suppose they are about 5 to 5 and a half inches with the tail. Im not really sure how big they are supposed to be/get. Ive been trying to get a couple of pictures of them but they are so quick, they take the worm from my hand and theyre gone by the time the shutter has done its job The rudd and golden orfe chase them and try to steal the worms from them.
There are definitely only the two in there. My water is crystal clear and i can see every fish in the pond. Even the black ones. I agree they are probably eating any fry, eggs, babies etc but i expect thats how they survived in my pond before i first noticed them at about an inch or so long.
Ill have to try further afield for my search for sunfish. I really would love more of them in my pond, maybe even in a large tank indoors. They fascinate me!! My wife thinks im crazy but im dreading the day i lose them. I have no idea of the average lifespan of greens in a pond???? I really dont think my pond would be the same without them. I know you guys will probably think im mad too but im sure they know when im at the pond
When my wife goes to feed the fish the greens are nowhere to be seen. If i feed them, the greens swim right to the edge and wait for their worms. Am i bonkers or do fish get to know whos who????

You're not bonkers, many fish can recognize individual people. For example, my oscar will get territorial when some people come near the tank, attacking the glass and such. When I come near the tank, she begs for food. I also have convict fry in a growout tank, they will swarm around my hand nibbling at the bloodworm cube or whatever I'm feeding them. I had my gf do this and they were very hesitant at first.
As for your green sunfish, I cannot find on any site where is says they have been introduced into the UK. Not even on www.fishbase.org According to fishbase the only country in Europe where greens are found is in Germany in the vicinity of Frankfurt. I also took a look at the list of freshwater fish that live in the UK (also on fishbase.org) and the only members of the sunfish (Centrarchidae) family found there are largemouth, smallmouth bass and pumpkinseed sunfish. Here is what the site stated on the status of pumpkinseed in the UK...

Introduced in early 20th century (Ref. 1971), but local sources suggest late 1800s. Recent research suggests well established populations in still waters but not rivers (Gordon Copp, pers. Comm., Oct. 18, 2006). Has become established and has bred in several waters during the first world war at Groombridge in East Sussex (England) and at Newport-on-Tay, Fife (Scotland); since 1938 near Crawley, West Sussex, and in 1953 near Bridgwater, Somerset (both England). The first two populations have since died out. Also from a lake on Broadlands estate in Hampshire and since 1973 in several waters in and around London. This species was listed in the paper on the introduction of Catostomus commersoni as introduced species in UK from North America (Ref. 13736). Of limited angling interest, often viewed as undesirable (Ref. 56552). Also Ref. 1971, 1998, 13686, 56550, 56555, 57525 and 56552.

SOURCE: http://fishbase.org/...pecies=gibbosus

If you cannot get your hands on more greens then pumpkinseeds might be something you want to look into. They are similer to and closely related to green sunfish and one of North America's most attractive sunfishes IMO. You can see mine in my avatar. I don't know the laws in the UK so research them first before you decide you might want to collect them. Here is the U.S. it is illegal to keep many non-native fish even if they already have established populations here.

Thanks for that sandtiger. I didnt know pupkinseeds were introduced here they are a very handsome fish!! If i could get my hands on some pumpkinseed, would it be possible that they may be aggressive with my greens and/or other fish? Ive added fishbase to my favourites, brilliant site.

Im glad im not the only person whos fish recognises them, they are obviously a lot smarter than people think. I have a huge ginger cat who sits by the pond and watches the fish. They sit there and look at him, and they even nibble at him when he drinks the water never once has he even attempted to grab a fish. He seems to like them as much as i do!!! He always drinks the pond water but never touches tap water.

Ive been giving my fish bloodworm earlier today. They go mad for them and take them straight from my fingers. Heres a couple of pics.
They come right out of the water to get the food
http://img.photobuck...ak/DSC00789.jpg

Look closely and youll see one of my green sunfish
http://img.photobuck...ak/DSC00806.jpg

A glimpse of my largest golden orfe. Nearly 20 inches long.
http://img.photobuck...ak/DSC00785.jpg

Thanks for that sandtiger. I didnt know pupkinseeds were introduced here they are a very handsome fish!! If i could get my hands on some pumpkinseed, would it be possible that they may be aggressive with my greens and/or other fish? Ive added fishbase to my favourites, brilliant site.

Im glad im not the only person whos fish recognises them, they are obviously a lot smarter than people think. I have a huge ginger cat who sits by the pond and watches the fish. They sit there and look at him, and they even nibble at him when he drinks the water never once has he even attempted to grab a fish. He seems to like them as much as i do!!! He always drinks the pond water but never touches tap water.

Ive been giving my fish bloodworm earlier today. They go mad for them and take them straight from my fingers. Heres a couple of pics.
They come right out of the water to get the food
http://img.photobuck...ak/DSC00789.jpg

Look closely and youll see one of my green sunfish
http://img.photobuck...ak/DSC00806.jpg

A glimpse of my largest golden orfe. Nearly 20 inches long.
http://img.photobuck...ak/DSC00785.jpg

Glad I could be of some help. Pumpkinseeds and greens should get along but it's really hit or miss. In a pond as large as yours I don't see why not. I keep a pumpkinseed with a green in my 75g aquarium and they get along fine. From what I can tell from your picture it does appear that your fish is a green. Nice fish BTW, that orfe is very impressive!

I'm not so sure that is a green sunfish, it is a sunfish but the mouth does not go back far enough to be a green sunfish, they have a rather large mouth. It's very hard to tell from the picture but if I had to guess I'd say maybe a pumpkinseed. It sure would help if you scoop one up in a net and get a picture of the side of the fish for a proper id.

I'm not so sure that is a green sunfish, it is a sunfish but the mouth does not go back far enough to be a green sunfish, they have a rather large mouth. It's very hard to tell from the picture but if I had to guess I'd say maybe a pumpkinseed. It sure would help if you scoop one up in a net and get a picture of the side of the fish for a proper id.

Upon closer inspection it appears you may be right. It is a difficult picture to ID, even more so since I have a glare right on my screen but when I lean in and sheild the picture with my hands it does look a lot like a pumpkinseed, the mouth being a big givaway, it looks nothing like a green's mouth. Also, it would make more sense for it to be a pumpkinseed since greens don't appear to be in the UK and you don't know where they came from.

so i may have pumpkins in my pond?? I suppose it would make more sense as they have been introduced here. I think ill have to scoop one up as advised. Got to catch the bugger first though, boy dont they move? The reason i thought they are greens is because of the blue markings on the mouth and the blue spots on the top of the head. Im happy to be corrected though, whatever they are, i love them I tried altering the picture in photoshop for easier viewing but it was no better.
Right!! Out with the net tomorrow and try and get one of them laying on its side, then ill post it here. I wont go chasing them around the pond though, the orfe are extremely stressful fish (so im told) and dont want to upset them. If you wanted a goldfish pic that would be easy, they literally chase the net around the pond when i remove leaves etc
Thanks again for your help and advice.

I could have sworn that i read somewhere that Orange Spots had been introduced in the UK and parts of Europe, but I was unable to turn up any info on it from a short google search.

post a pict of your green.

The body type of the green sunfish is far more bass like then a pumpkinseed. Bluegill/green hybrids are common pond stocking fish. If you fish doesn't look like this then it isn't a green.

WOW that's a big orfe.

You need a pike or zander in your pond.

Seriously, that does look a little like a pumpkinseed but can't really tell.

I have a book on European fishes and it says pumpkinseeds and bluegills have been stocked in Europe.

There are pike/bass in the lake. I've caught an 11" green on a twister tail when bass fishing in the same lake. I had no idea they got that big.

Thanks all for the comments. I think ill leave the pike out of thge pond for the time being....
Ok, this should help the discussion. Answers are all welcomed, but now ive had him/her out of the water i agree with the majority. It looks like a p/seed.
I havent had a good look at him since he was tiny, hes a little deeper in the body than i thought he'd be.
http://img.photobuck...ak/DSC00813.jpg

Yup, Pumpkinseed.

I'm confident now too that it is a pumpkinseed, looks like I nice sized one at that.

I agree with others now, that picture really helps. It's a pumpkinseed.