31 replies to this topic

[Dustin]

Blackbanded sunfish

Bluespotted sunfish

Yellowfin shiner

Rainbow shiner

Fieryblack shiner

Rainbow darter

Bluefin killifish

Golden topminnow

Least killifish

Everglades pygmy

[Chasmodes]

The aquarium trade also consists of hobbiests that enjoy predatory species for larger tanks.  I'd also add largemouth or smallmouth bass, or similar species (not just the sunfish cousins).  The look nice, have a lot of personality (and very active at young ages), eat just about anything, can tolerate warmer temperatures and even a little bit of salinity.  The are very pet like as adults as well, much like the larger cichlids.

[smbass]

Predators...

Redfin Pickerel, size manageable and can be produced fairly easily in ponds

Spotted Gar, really nice pattern and gar are fairly manageable aquarium fish (if produced in FL Florida gar may be a better choice, not that different and native to the area).

Cossa Bass, smaller and far more manageable that larger bass species, still gets plenty big enough with lots of attitude I have a few and ask Josh if you want to know more about the attitude...

Bowfin, should make the snakehead lovers very happy

 

 

Sunfish, Been selling a lot of these for 13 years for the aquarium trade and my best sellers in order of popularity...

 

Ozark Form of Longear Sunfish by far top seller and easy to produce

Western form of Dollar Sunfish also easy to produce

Orangespotted very good seller but production a little more difficult

Blackbanded Sunfish very good seller but also a little more difficult to produce

Bluespotted Sunfish easier to produce than other two Enneacanthus and still good seller

 

Cyprinids tuns of possibilities but here are my picks...

Rainbow Shiner

Flagfin Shiner

Yellowfin Shiner

Fireyblack Shiner

Steelcolor Shiner

Tricolor Shiner this one is really easy to culture and mass produce very readily

Mountain Redbelly Dace

Southern Redbelly Dace

Crescent Shiner

Hornyhead Chub

Bluehead Chub

Taillight Shiner

 

 

Suckers...

Sharpfin Chubsucker all chubsuckers are by far the easiest suckers to keep in aquariums and these and Lake Chubsucker are more readily cultured than the Creek Chubsucker. Personally feel sharpfins are the most striking coloration wise too with nice black stripe even as adults, sharp angle to the fins, and gold flecks all over sides.

 

Darters are harder to mass produce but there are some species suitable for pond culture...

 

Iowa Darter

Brown Darter both colorful and easy to pond culture

 

others that are great aquarium fish but probably more difficult to culture on a mass scale...

Redline Darter

Frecklebelly Darter

Gilt Darter

Rainbow Darter

 

Two others that might pond culture and are colorful but have not tried...

Savanah Darter

Gulf Darter

 

Killifish really a lot of these are very suitable but my favorites would be...

 

Melanistic strain of Golden Topminnow

Bluefin Killifish

Rubyfaced or Banded Topminnows (not sure I know the difference)

Northern Starhead

 

Odds and ends...

any Mudminnows, wish they were more colorful (never had olympic mudminnow but photos make it look like most colorful) but they are North Americas beta

 

Nano tanks are a big thing so for those specifically...

Least Killifish (need to change the common name to pygmy livebearer so it is more accurate)excellent nano tank fish.

Pygmy Killifish

Bluefin Killifish

Dwarf Crayfish (I know not fish but need something for all those cherry shrimp keepers)

Pepered Shiner never had them but very small and look interesting

Alafia River Pternotropis sp. also very small and good color

Least Darter very small and easy to pond culture

Gulf Coast Pygmy Sunfish (could put any pygmy sunfish here but this is my personal favorite)

 

I know a lot more than 10 but this should cover a wide variety of aquarium settings and hobbyist interest groups, I have always felt I could find a native fish that fills the niche of every tropical fish keepers favorite species and this list covers a very broad range...

[Mysteryman]

Barrens Topminnow, Fundulus julisia

 

This very pretty green fish with gold & orange flecks would be popular, and if we cranked them out on farms, they would be saved from extinction.

[Mysteryman]

Flagfins are great, of course, and a near-perfect aquarium fish. I'm currently doubling the size of my Flagfin hatchery, so the idea of them becoming cheap and widely available ruins my plans, but whatever.

 

Rainbows are also sure to be mega-popular. So far only one Florida fish farm is raising them, Imperial Tropicals, but their fish are nearly all blue with no pink. Their broodstock must have come from the southern end of their range down in Clarke County, where they are blue. The northernmost ones are mostly pink with little blue, while of course the ones in the centre of their range are the ones with the best mix, so if they took that into account they'd get off on the right foot. ( fin? )

I've spent a lot of money and effort to build a Rainbow production area, so again, it bugs me that they might soon become cheap and common, but I guess they couldn't really go wrong with them.

 

Bluespot Sunnies are another good bet, along with Black-bandeds.

 

Some of the other flashy Shiners would be nice, BUT they get very large. Hobbyists might well release them into the wild when they got too big, and unlike tropical exotics, they would survive. Not good!

 

Fundulus olivaceous, the Blackbanded Topminnow, is a cool fish that should be popular.

 

Diamond Killies would be cool. Pupfish are fun.

 

The thing is, would hobbyists keep them by themselves in unheated tanks, or just plop them in with their tropicals? I think we can assume the latter. Food is another problem. Live foods are a must with many natives, so that's a big hurdle.

Edited by Mysteryman, 08 March 2016 - 12:14 AM.

[mikez]

Mystery man, I tried to PM you but my tablet owns me and refuses to obey.

I have a question about first food for flagfin fry, say that 5 times fast.

Sounds like you have commercial aspirations so if its trade secrets, I get it.
I'm down to one pair I want my next try to count.
Sorry for the hijack.

[Doug_Dame]

 

Rainbows are also sure to be mega-popular. So far only one Florida fish farm is raising them, Imperial Tropicals, but their fish are nearly all blue with no pink. Their broodstock must have come from the southern end of their range down in Clarke County, where they are blue. The northernmost ones are mostly pink with little blue, while of course the ones in the centre of their range are the ones with the best mix, so if they took that into account they'd get off on the right foot. ( fin? )

I've spent a lot of money and effort to build a Rainbow production area, so again, it bugs me that they might soon become cheap and common, but I guess they couldn't really go wrong with them.

 

 

I assume the original question came (indirectly) from the UnivOfFla/IFAS AquaCulture Lab. (Which the NANFAns who are also part of the SKS (Suncoast Killifish Society) have visited numerous times. We used to meet there once a year, although we haven't recently.)

 

Just because fishheads HERE suggest that fish farmers in Florida can commercially raise rainbow shiners doesn't mean that's going to happen. Most of the fish farms are in the Tampa area, and the vast majority of the fish are raised in outdoor ponds. That's probably going to be too warm for rainbow shiners. 

[Mysteryman]

Oh, right. The temperature is probably the main reason they aren't already mass producing these.

 

First food for Flagfin Fry?  Dense Greenwater. 10 days on Greenwater, with finely powdered food mixed in starting around day 6 or 7.

When I say Dense Greenwater, I mean collect some greenwater, preferably some you rubbed some plant leaves in to get lots of aufwuchs, or use one of those commercial blends.  Then, let it sit in a jar for an hour or so. The green stuff will settle to the bottom. Pour off the clear water above, and ta-DA!  Perfect food.

Turn off the tank pumps. When the water has stilled a bit, carefully add a small cloud of greenwater to the tank. You'll notice that Flagfin fry stay near the surface, so pour very gently so it stays near the top. Watch the fry, and you should see them swimming through it and eating.

After about a half hour, restart the pumps. The fry should have visibly bulging little tummies, but not VERY bulging.

 

Do this about 5 times a day. It's a bit labor intensive, yes.

On day 6 or 7, add some powdered fry food to the greenwater.  ( Stuff like Hikari "First Bites" is good, or you can make your own by grinding TetraMin flakes to dust, or use the commercial stuff that hatcheries use if you can get it. Any of these works fine. ) It will float and not sink while the pumps are off. When you restart them, it will sink and the fry will eat it. The first day or two they won't show much interest, but eventually they'll figure it out. By day 10 they will have stopped eating Greenwater and will eat the powder with gusto. After another week, you're home free and the fry will be as easy to raise as guppies.

 

Some floating plant bits help, too.

 

The adults like to spawn in areas away from the strong water current, by the way. I guess it ensures better egg fertilization. Use pea-gravel or an egg trap, since they're avid egg-eaters. The adults stay at the bottom, and the fry stay at the surface, so the adults eat surprisingly few fry. You should have time to move them without losing them all.

Edited by Mysteryman, 08 March 2016 - 11:32 PM.

[mikez]

Oh thanks mysteryman. Not only did you give me what I need for the future but I better understand my past failure.

Getting back on topic, you mentioned the limiting factor which I don't think came up: the Spector of release into the wild. A lot of the species mentioned might be candidates for invasive pest. Many states are actively legislating against specific species as potentially invasive. See Maine's famous battles to get koi out of Chinese restaurants.

[CCat]

Great thread. My interest in natives started with heterandria formosa (least killies), when I was looking for friendly, small fish for my planted community tank.  It was a great ambassador for me, and I think many of the species listed here could be the same.  I think it's mostly a question of availability, and whether people are talking about them elsewhere in the aquarium hobby (e.g., on plantedtank.net).

[mattknepley]

Really interesting thread. Been lurking/thinking on it this whole time. And my take is...

I'm a kerschmutznik. I say none; for now.

My train of thought, if you can call it that, is like this

1- implementation of projects based on these types of suggestions are all limited by the environments where the fishes would be produced, Florida in this case, but could be south Texas, or SoCal, et cetera. This most likely means outside pond production. In FLA it's easier and cheaper to keep things warm in "winter" than it is to keep them cool the other ten months of the year. Scratch many of our colorful, more northern fishes that need a good dose o' cold to be at their best; ie reproduce in profitable numbers.

2- fishes that would be successful in those climates pose a problem when they escape or are released. Just because the Sunshine State's waters are so screwed up now they are unrestorable (in regards to invasives) doesn't mean that should be a security blanket/excuse for the inevitable unintended introduction of other fishes in those waters. Sadly, fish production in FL has to be equated to escapes and irresponsible releases that establish populations in the wild.

3- I would think the best colored Lepomis types would really appeal to the crowd that likes big cichlids, and most of them are seasoned enough keepers to handle the extra considerations those fish can require. One could make those work in Florida, I would assume. If I were to ignore my second objection, I might suggest some of those. But here's where I get provincial- we have a proportionately small handful of folks producing show quality Lepomis already. We have bigger numbers, proportionately, of Lepomis being raised for commercial stocking. Both serve their purposes, and I hate to think of our "little, pretty guys" getting WalMarted out of existence if the sunfishes were to catch on.

4- If mass produced, most of our natives-for-sale would find themselves in big-box petstores, where they'd be sold to folks who will try to keep them with tropicals, and most will fail to thrive. The natives will then eventually prove unprofitable because they will slowly waste away in hobbyist tanks, not look good in the process, and not be bought again. Not only unprofitable, but not a good promoter of the NANFA cause.

5- Fishes that are FL native and colorful for some reason just don't take off very often. I see Golden Topminnows in bigbox stores every once in a while. For some reason, they don't sell. Same with Flagfish and Bluefin Killies. Rather than a focus on production, maybe a focus on marketing of these species should be explored.

I've had other concerns, but can't seem to recall them now. I applaud that this idea is brought up, and so enthusiastically being discussed. And please do keep considering promotion of natives to a wider market. Just remember "growth" and "success" in the NANFA arena does NOT have to equal "mass production". Obviously, I am in no ways a fisheries professional. If there are holes in my logic that need exposing, please be gentle!

[gerald]

Good thoughts Matt.  I wasn't really thinking of this thread as anything having to do with promoting NANFA or supporting NANFA goals.  Having natives available in every pet shop doesn't really do much - if anything - to promote awareness of local aquatic biodiversity and habitat conservation.  To most casual aquarium hobbyists, sailfin mollies, flagfish, channel cats, gar, etc are just interesting fish they can buy at the pet store; most folks pay no attention to where their pet fish come from, beyond whether they need hard or soft water and high or low pH.   In fact, i think that having to go collect your own natives (or trade with native-collectors in other states) makes them "special" and does more to promote awareness of the fish-habitat connection. I have no objection to natives being farmed for the pet market (except for invasive potential, e.g. red shiner), and it just might prompt some of the more inquiring hobbyists to take an interest in what other natives exist that aren't in pet shops, but i agree with you it has little to do with the NANFA cause.