36 replies to this topic

[taldridge0321]

I caught the biggest Spottail Shiners ever here, close to five inches.

[taldridge0321]

[taldridge0321]

[taldridge0321]

[taldridge0321]

 

 

Two creeks and three hours of driving in 96 degree weather, reminds me of my old profession haha.

[Dustin]

I don't have time to go through them and label each one right now, but you got some cool stuff.  The ones you thought were redlips are fieryblacks.  I also see greenfin (not satinfins) amd highfin shiners and thicklip chub for sure as well as seagreen darters.  Very nice spot.  

[taldridge0321]

I don't have time to go through them and label each one right now, but you got some cool stuff.  The ones you thought were redlips are fieryblacks.  I also see greenfin (not satinfins) amd highfin shiners and thicklip chub for sure as well as seagreen darters.  Very nice spot.  

Sweet, thanks, whenever you get the time. Didn't know it was a Seagreen Darter cool.

[Dustin]

Okay, here's what I see:

 

1, 4-5, 23  Moxostoma of some sort.  I am not good at suckers.  The redfinned ones are likely shorthead but that is just an educated guess.

2-3 northern hogsucker

6  highfin shiner

7-9 thicklip chub

11, 14, 20  fieryblack shiner

12-13, 19  greenfin shiner

15-17 seagreen darter

21 spottail shiner

22 spotted sucker

[gerald]

Agree with most of Dustin's ID's, except perhaps:

 

#6 i'd guess Sandbar shiner (scepticus) rather than Highfin.

# 1, 4, 5, 22, 23 - could be Jumprocks (Brassy, Striped) or Redhorses (Shorthead, V-lip, Notchlip)

i dont think #22 is a Spotted sucker

 

Looking at Menhinick's maps (Freshwater Fishes of NC, 1991) for Broad River watershed, Striped jumprock and White sucker have the most dots, so are probably the most common suckers in that basin.  Check the DWR's stream fish sampling records for that basin too.

[taldridge0321]

Agree with most of Dustin's ID's, except perhaps:

 

#6 i'd guess Sandbar shiner (scepticus) rather than Highfin.

# 1, 4, 5, 22, 23 - could be Jumprocks (Brassy, Striped) or Redhorses (Shorthead, V-lip, Notchlip)

i dont think #22 is a Spotted sucker

 

Looking at Menhinick's maps (Freshwater Fishes of NC, 1991) for Broad River watershed, Striped jumprock and White sucker have the most dots, so are probably the most common suckers in that basin.  Check the DWR's stream fish sampling records for that basin too.

All of the suckers I caught I got out of Buffalo Creek which is a few miles away from the Broad River. I just posted a thread with just the sucker pictures up just now since Dustin said he wasn't so sure about some of the suckers.

[Dustin]

Gerald is, of course, correct about that not being a highfin, but a sandbar instead.  I hadn't considered sandbar but that pigmentation along the anal fin is pretty obvious.  He is also correct that the fish I called a spotted sucker is actually a striped jumprock.

[gerald]

Sandbars are usually plain silvery with not much of a lateral stripe apparent, but when they do show the stripe small ones can sure look like Highfins.  A guy in Greensboro sent me a picture of a lone Sandbar shiner (from Haw River, Cape Fear basin)  he kept in a tank with dark gravel and some other stripey minnows, and within a few weeks it had a prominent dark lateral stripe and dark dorsal scales like its tankmates.  Comely shiner is another that usually shows little or no stripe in the wild, but often gets a stripe in aquarium conditions.

[Matt DeLaVega]

You guys have crazy hudsonius. I am surprised that these have not been split.

[gerald]

Agree with DLV.  Our Atlantic drainage volucellus might need a good splittin' too, just as Lythrurus ardens and fasciolaris were split.

[Matt DeLaVega]

I am not really a big fan of splitting, but some things just make sense. I haven't paid enough attention to your mimics, have any good photos that show the difference well?

[gerald]

Nope - I'm just guessing based on their isolation from the Gulf drainage pops.  Jenkins & Burkhead (1994) speculate that the Chowan, Tar-Pamlico, and Neuse River basin populations are from a separate, older invasion from the New River to the Atlantic slope than the Mimic pops in the upper Roanoke and James basins.

[Matt DeLaVega]

Ok. But the hudsonious are obviously different phenotypically. Can you offer any ideas about Kentucky and Missouri? Arrow and niangua darters. The srbd down that way are also more closely related genetically to blackside dace than other SRBD. What happened geologically?