10 replies to this topic

[Cu455]

Anyone keeping golden shiners? Are they sensitive fish? I bought a few from the baitshop and they did fine for a few weeks. Then a few died over a couple of days. My tank broke and I managed to save most. A few died a day and 2 after the break. Today another died.

They all do the same thing before the die. The go to the sand curl up and pump their gills fast. This goes on for a day or 2 then they die.

Edit: After a few of them died I added some marine salt, maybe a spoon or 2 for 20 gallons. Today I will get prazi and hydrogen peroxide. I lost about 6 from the original 12 I had.

[9darlingcalvi]

Not enough oxygen, that's what it sounds like or maybe it too wanr

[littlen]

Cu--there are still way too many unknowns for us to help you with your fish deaths.  For instance, were the fish brought home and put into a new, or established tank?  Ammonia spikes and water quality issues could be a possible cause of death.  Did you see any spots or sores on them, possibly a parasite infection or secondary infection from an area of missing scales?  (Most feeders and bait fish are filthy in those regards).  The rapid gilling at the bottom isn't a good sign but fish usually go to the surface in a low oxygen environment.  Not the bottom.

I really wouldn't start adding medications until you really know what is going on.  Do you have the option of collecting any wild fish?  Again, the bait shop fish could have had a long journey before getting to your home tank which sets you up for failure in the long run.  

[Michael Wolfe]

Nick's right.  I tried the bait shop fish route when I first got into the hobby, but those fish are massively stressed and crowded before you ever get a chance to get them home.  Golden shiners are very hardy fish usually (which is why they are used as bait) but you would do much better getting something from a different source (can't remember where you are, please put a general location in your profile, but collecting a few might be a better option if that is reasonable).

[Cu455]

The tank was setup using sand and a sponge filter from an established tank. I had a powerful air pump running the sponge and a smaller one for circulation. I tested for ammonia when I first set the tank up and it was not detectable. I only checked when I first set it up.

I was a little bummed out when my tank broke and just used an airstone and plants. After work I am going to put in new sand and move an HOB filter from my other tank to this. This should keep o2 levels high.


I counted the fish I lost and it was 5 fish. It could of just been stress and what not. I went to buy 6 more shiners but the are only sold in 12. I will be adding more to my smaller tank and a few to my larger tank. I feel they might get eaten in the larger tank but I don't want to overstock my smaller tank.

Once it gets nicer out I will try and go collecting. About a month ago I used my minnow trap on several occasions and caught nothing. I also caught nothing with my fishing rod.

Here is a thread I started about my shiner tank.

http://forum.nanfa.o...for-small-fish/

[littlen]

Without testing again---during or after the fish deaths--won't allow us to rule out an ammonia spike.  The rapid breathing at the bottom suggests that to me as high levels can burn the gill tissue making it harder for them to absorb oxygen as water passes over their gills.  So in return they breath faster.  I would personally make sure your tank is stable and the rest of your fish are doing well before adding more.  I know they are inexpensive and you are trying to save a few from becoming bass food.  But your efforts will be in vain if they are brought home and die anyway.

Good luck.

[Cu455]

It has to be the fish. I put some I'm my 265 sump which has been running for almost 2 years, water is 5/6 full with 2 hob filters and a return from the sump, o2 shouldn't be a problem. It is a unheated tank in a unheated basement with water temp is about 55 degrees F. Same results.

The fish came in some blue medicated water. Maybe that made the fish weak or had an affect on them.

[Doug_Dame]

While it *COULD* very well be the fish ... and the comments above about bait-shop fish being generally being pre-stressed are spot-on ... whenever you have a multi-fish death incident, it's best to suspect anything and everything until you can introduce new fish without problems.

 

* could be the fish / source

* could be the transport home - time, aeration, temperature - a dozen biggish anxious fish in a plastic bag are going to deplete the O2 pretty quickly ... the bait store could be packing them up assuming the fish will go into your boat's live well, while you're still in their parking lot, whereas in reality you're running a couple of other errands and the fish are in the bag for 90 minutes before you get home

* could be thermal shock (up or down) when introduced into the aquarium

* could be the water conditions in the tank

 

If I was buying golden (or other) shiners at a bait-shop with the intent of making them into aquarium fish, I'd:

* take my cooler into the bait shop,

* ask them to give me 3 inches of their water to go with the fish

* have a battery-powered bubbler, and

* I'd go straight home.

Then I'd

* leave the cooler in the same room as the aquarium for 4 to 24 or even 48 hours, depending on how much temperature difference there was, 

* keep aeration on, with an A/C air pump or the battery-powered unit, 

* give the water X drops of de-chlor sufficient for 5 gals of city water, to help cope with any fish-released biowaste, 

* and add a cup or two of tank water into the cooler every hour or so.

* ideally, the cooler water should be 75% tank water, and have reached ambient room temperature, before you transfer the fish (via net or scoop) into the aquarium.

 

Using this approach does not guarantee success. And you may already be doing most of it. But it does finesse most of the easily avoidable risks.

 

Did your fish become distressed soon after getting into the aquarium, or did it take several days?

 

In an aquarium that's not just ridiculously undersized for the amount of fish, an ammonia spike caused by the waste products of the new fish (and any waste food) would generally take a few days or more to build to toxic levels. 

 

The blue stuff in the bait store water is intended to keep them living, not kill them. It's very unlikely to be the perpetrator in this mystery.

 

HTH

[Cu455]

The guy didn't know what the blue stuff is but I am guessing methyl blue. It is used because it is the law. In order to fish with live bait outside the waterway they were caught it must be "certified." The stores must use this chemical to be certified. It is to prevent the spread of disease in particular VHS.

[gerald]

That last photo looks like a classic example of Flexibacter infection, also known as Columnaris.  It's a bacteria, although it looks like fungus, and is very common on newly caught, crowded, or transport-stressed minnows and other fish.  It often appears first on the fin edges, quickly spreading onto the body, especially on the caudal peduncle in minnows, and often on the head and lips in livebearers ("mouth fungus").  It kills quicker than just about any other disease, if not controlled.  When its just on the fin edges it can be treated, but once it's eaten into the caudal peduncle like that fish, there's little chance of recovery.

[Matt DeLaVega]

Jonahs has them as well as many other species. Obviously not at bait shop prices, but they will thrive. The stress of bait shop life is just too much for most fish to bear.

 

Over the years, I just haven't heard very many positive bait shop stories. I really doubt that you are doing anything wrong.