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55 gallon question!


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#1 juhason

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 05:42 PM

I have a 55 gallon with some central/south american cichlids in it. (1 salvini, 2 convicts, 1 EB Acara). I know this stock is not good, it was poor planning on my part. They are all small so it is ok at the moment, but I am aware that I most likely cannot keep this stock long term.  My main question is, can I keep a green sunfish in this tank with ANY of these cichlids? I know generally it is not recommended to mix fish from different regions, but let's just say it was going to happen indefinitely (it's not). I miss having natives and want to try and keep a "monster" looking fish.

 

So if I had to get rid of some fish to get a green sunfish.... could it be done and which fish?  



#2 gzeiger

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 07:14 PM

I didn't know you could keep anything with a pair of convicts. Assuming a breeding pair, they will eventually kill bass, pike and barracuda to establish a territory.



#3 juhason

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 07:28 PM

I didn't know you could keep anything with a pair of convicts. Assuming a breeding pair, they will eventually kill bass, pike and barracuda to establish a territory.

Sorry I didn't specify, they are both female. I also mentioned I would be wiling to get rid of some fish so, 1 or both could be removed. Just saying. 



#4 littlen

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 07:45 PM

(Just barely slipped in enough of a native inquiry to keep this thread legit  :-$ )

 

I wouldn't recommend adding ANY additional fish to that set up.  A 55 will not contain that much attitude regardless of which America the fish comes from.  Small or not, cichlids hold their own very well, and even a large Green may not be up to snuff with a feisty Salvini or Convict.  If you want natives, do away with the cichlids and make it another N.A. sunfish tank.  That way you have a lot of information on this forum you can look up on which species mix well together and in what size fish tank.

 

Of course you can pretend that we never had this conversation and try it anyway.  We won't police what goes in your tank but keep the well-being of each fish in mind and have accommodations ready should it not work out. 


Nick L.

#5 juhason

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 08:02 PM

(Just barely slipped in enough of a native inquiry to keep this thread legit  :-$ )

 

I wouldn't recommend adding ANY additional fish to that set up.  A 55 will not contain that much attitude regardless of which America the fish comes from.  Small or not, cichlids hold their own very well, and even a large Green may not be up to snuff with a feisty Salvini or Convict.  If you want natives, do away with the cichlids and make it another N.A. sunfish tank.  That way you have a lot of information on this forum you can look up on which species mix well together and in what size fish tank.

 

Of course you can pretend that we never had this conversation and try it anyway.  We won't police what goes in your tank but keep the well-being of each fish in mind and have accommodations ready should it not work out. 

Thank you for the reply, but I'm just a little confused on how it is barely a native inquiry? It's mostly about the green sunfish lol. Also I wasn't implying that he would be an addition, but that he would be a substitute (for 1 or more of the fish). If you are saying he won't mix with any central american fish in general, then that would answer my question. But if you are saying he won't work with my current setup, that is not what I meant. (I am not trying to be condescending in any way.  I really hope this doesn't come off that way, just wanting to make sure I was clear enough with my question!  :biggrin: )



#6 Matt DeLaVega

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 09:14 PM

How hard is it to catch a green for you? Easy? Pffft.Try it. What is the worst that can happen? Let us know. I don't think you will get an answer here. Most people here speak from experience. Ask the same question on another forum like MFK or AP, and you will get tons of answers. Try it out and provide an answer for others.


The member formerly known as Skipjack


#7 Matt DeLaVega

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 10:15 PM

Guess what I am saying is that though this is a native forum it may be interesting hearing about this. May provide another way for other fish people to find a way in.Just try not to steer it off topic.


The member formerly known as Skipjack


#8 juhason

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 10:56 PM

How hard is it to catch a green for you? Easy? Pffft.Try it. What is the worst that can happen? Let us know. I don't think you will get an answer here. Most people here speak from experience. Ask the same question on another forum like MFK or AP, and you will get tons of answers. Try it out and provide an answer for others.

Ok, I think I will! Not really into catching fish anymore (personal life choices) but will try to find one from a breeder or online (or maybe saved from a pet store as a "Jack Dempsey") I definitely think though, just from observation and thought after posting this that the acara won't mix well with the green (as in, the acara is too much of a wimp) but.... I'll try it. The salvini and convicts don't care about him at all but for some reason I feel like the green will care about him. Don't know why I get that feeling but its a strong feeling lol. I have a spare tank just in case. 

 

Once I have some info, I'll let you guys know!


Edited by juhason, 29 January 2017 - 10:58 PM.


#9 mattknepley

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 04:31 PM

Since we have the o.p. more or less settled, might I derail this thread with the observation that this topic brings up that question of where the NANFA line is drawn again? I'm pretty sure Nick and I had a discussion on this a long time ago, but can't swear to it. Seems to me the northern, eastern, and western boundaries are pretty clear, but the south is problematic (if we want to think too much about this, that is). I tend to think of Panama as being the farthest land boundary, with the Caribbean Islands thrown in, too. I seem to remember Nick pointing out a geologic/biological ridge/divide type scenario in Mexico that many use as the dividing line. As fish don't tend to take on human identities, I'm sure we are safe to say the ever-blurring cultural line between Latin and Anglo-America is completely useless to our question, but some do try to argue that North America ends at the Rio Grande... Personally, I'd consider Convicts a North American species. What do you all think? I'm not looking to start trouble, it's a question NANFA has happily lived not answering (at least not in my time here), but I am curious what other NANFAns hold to be our southern boundary, and why.
Matt Knepley
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#10 Matt DeLaVega

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 07:13 PM

https://en.wikipedia...i/North_America

 

I suppose this is the bottom line.


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#11 juhason

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 09:00 PM

Interesting question! You know I'm actually learning in my college history course about how the Europeans basically drew lines everywhere and before this, places like India and Pakistan didn't exist. Africa was just big old Africa... literally every country we have in Africa today was created in a week by the European settlers. And of course America was just America..... so when it comes boundaries and regions, it's all kind of bs. And of course the wiki article even includes Central America as part of North America, so that settles that. I will try getting a hold of a green sunfish (if anyone knows a guy let me know  :wink:) and let you guys know how they interact! 



#12 Michael Wolfe

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 06:48 PM

https://en.wikipedia...i/North_America
 
I suppose this is the bottom line.


I want to strongly disagree that wiki-anything is the final answer.

I believe a former editor defined it as the Nearctic Reguon as this was more appropriate for species spread. Included some but not all of the Caribbean island (and a weird mix if I remember right) and some but not all of Central America.

I will have to look fir that definition.
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

#13 Michael Wolfe

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 06:52 PM

http://www.nanfa.org/checklist.shtml

Check out paragraph 2

See; it's not all about social media, sometimes you have to got back to an old fashion website.
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

#14 keepnatives

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 09:30 PM

A small map displaying that range would be a nice addition, I'm better with pictures than words.  Did I just give myself an assignment?


Mike Lucas
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#15 gerald

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 10:08 PM

The Nearctic zoogeographic realm, as Chris Scharpf uses it in our NANFA species checklist, ends at the skinny east-west part of Mexico, where the Gulf of Mex is north and pacific is south.  The easternmost part of Mexico, from Chiapas eastward, is part of Central America in the ecological sense (not political sense).


Gerald Pottern
-----------------------
Hangin' on the Neuse
"Taxonomy is the diaper used to organize the mess of evolution into discrete packages" - M.Sandel


#16 Michael Wolfe

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 11:01 PM

I think if you look at some of the convention t-shirts there is a dashed line across the appropriate place in the graphic


Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

#17 Matt DeLaVega

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Posted 01 February 2017 - 11:11 PM

Sorry Southern Florida, your not in our club anymore. I am going to say that NANFA has to accept a loose definition.

 

 

 

Attached File  498px-Ecozone-Biocountries-Nearctic-2.svg.png   87.75KB   2 downloads


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#18 Chasmodes

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 08:35 AM

That made me chuckle!  :biggrin:


Kevin Wilson


#19 gerald

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Posted 03 February 2017 - 11:50 AM

I'm guessing Matt's map is based on climate zones for plants. 

Ecoregion boundaries vary according to what group of critters or plants you choose to define them, and how they move around.

Fully aquatic critters obviously have different dispersal mechanisms from and terrestrial animals and plants.

But hey, who needs south Florida when we've got Greenland!


Gerald Pottern
-----------------------
Hangin' on the Neuse
"Taxonomy is the diaper used to organize the mess of evolution into discrete packages" - M.Sandel


#20 Matt DeLaVega

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Posted 03 February 2017 - 01:20 PM

I just googled Nearctic region and it was the best map I could find. I also thought the Florida thing was funny.


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