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ID help with aquatic moss (photo heavy) and a vascular plant.


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#1 snarkinturtle

snarkinturtle
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  • Ontario

Posted 01 September 2017 - 08:48 AM

Excited to have found this forum. I have a long-standing interest in native fishes. I have recently begun keeping a planted tank where I have been doing some experimenting with native plants. Ultimately, I would like to do an entirely native species aquascape. I would like some help IDing a couple species of mosses:

 

 

 

FHoLHav.jpg

 

The pool moss came from a submersed log in a vernal pool at the edge of a large marsh in southern Ontario. It's been growing in my tank (low tech) for awhile where it looks like this:

80AaOLy.jpg

 

Under (home-brew quality) magnification:

F5yyldt.jpg

 

hNkK1KT.jpg

 

p5wqSZe.jpg?1

 

 



#2 snarkinturtle

snarkinturtle
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  • Ontario

Posted 01 September 2017 - 08:49 AM

The 'stream moss' came from a wooded stream over limestone in southern Ontario.

 

 

 

In situ:

 

 

DSi1VrX.jpg

 

 

In tuperware:

 

xTpldyv.jpg

 

Under magnification:

pf2B7db.jpg

 

2u9p9tp.jpg

 

U0AjREx.jpg

 

Finally, here is a submersed macrophyte (although it looks like it probably would typically be litoral or emergent) growing in the same place as the stream moss. I've looked through Wetland Plants of Ontario and can't find it but that is a sort of starter field guide and it's missing a lot of rare and introduced species.

yQoeJMq.jpg

 

Any help would be very much appreciated!



#3 gerald

gerald
  • Global Moderator
  • Wake Forest, North Carolina

Posted 01 September 2017 - 10:35 AM

I don't know what mosses those are, but leaf shape and leaf density along the stems can vary based on growing conditions, just as it does in other plants.  I've seen wild-collected aquatic mosses (might be Fontinalis or Fissidens ?) put out new growth in aquariums that looked quite different from their original wild branches.

 

On that vascular plant, can you get some closer photos showing leaf shape, veins (above and below), leaf arrangement on stem, flowers, fruits, or anything else? Does ot root at the nodes or only at the bottom?


Gerald Pottern
-----------------------
Hangin' on the Neuse
"Taxonomy is the diaper used to organize the mess of evolution into discrete packages" - M.Sandel


#4 snarkinturtle

snarkinturtle
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  • Ontario

Posted 01 September 2017 - 01:12 PM

I will try to get back this weekend for more photos.

#5 snarkinturtle

snarkinturtle
  • NANFA Guest
  • Ontario

Posted 02 September 2017 - 08:41 PM

More photos of the macrophyte:

 

bFs1Ujl.jpg

 

kBYCD0R.jpg

 

There was a lot of it in the stream but it took me awhile to find a single flower:

 

JS8PnLR.jpg

 

JS8PnLR.jpg

Also, I found some sporophytes of the stream moss where it covered a small boulder protruding from the water:

Vx8nvEV.jpg

 

Hope these help. 



#6 gerald

gerald
  • Global Moderator
  • Wake Forest, North Carolina

Posted 02 September 2017 - 09:54 PM

That's better.  Plant looks like Lindernia dubia (or some close relative).  Still cant help with the moss ... sorry.


Gerald Pottern
-----------------------
Hangin' on the Neuse
"Taxonomy is the diaper used to organize the mess of evolution into discrete packages" - M.Sandel


#7 snarkinturtle

snarkinturtle
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  • Ontario

Posted 03 September 2017 - 09:07 AM

Thanks gerald. It does look similar based on the photos I googled except that the flower of my plant lacks the elongate tube. I tried to take a closer photo but it turned out blurry (not sure why I didn't use flash). The growth habit of this plant was kind of like watercress in it had a lot of aerial-type aquatic roots but wasn't securely attached to the substrate and was almost mat forming.

 

When I went back and thinking about it more afterwards, I realized that I have seen this species or one like it before about 400 km away in SW Ontario on NW shore of Lake Erie in a ditch. It formed floating mats there. I looked back through my photos and found a couple. In this case the growth is not shaded and instead is in direct sunlight:

 

11xht9p.jpg

 

tSThiCz.jpg



#8 gerald

gerald
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  • Wake Forest, North Carolina

Posted 03 September 2017 - 03:11 PM

How about Gratiola?  Gratiola virginica is a common one in my area; not sure what spp are in Ontario.


Gerald Pottern
-----------------------
Hangin' on the Neuse
"Taxonomy is the diaper used to organize the mess of evolution into discrete packages" - M.Sandel


#9 smilingfrog

smilingfrog
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  • Minnesota

Posted 05 September 2017 - 10:15 PM

Could it be ​Veronica anagallis-aquatica, or V. americana​?  My book says they usually have blue flowers but sometimes white.  No idea on the moss.



#10 gerald

gerald
  • Global Moderator
  • Wake Forest, North Carolina

Posted 06 September 2017 - 09:04 AM

Yup, Veronica may be a better possibility.  One of your photos shows multiple flowers clustered on a spike, which Veronica does.  Gratiola flowers are more spread out, just 1 or few at each node.  I'm wondering if the last photo (with red center veins) might be something different from the ones above, or just submersed vs emergent variation?


Gerald Pottern
-----------------------
Hangin' on the Neuse
"Taxonomy is the diaper used to organize the mess of evolution into discrete packages" - M.Sandel


#11 snarkinturtle

snarkinturtle
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  • Ontario

Posted 07 September 2017 - 11:12 AM

Thank you very much to you both. I think Veronica catenata (= ​Veronica anagallis-aquatica?) is the closest match. The Minnesota Wildflowers page has a photo of a colony that looks pretty similar to my last set of images. Also, the description at Michigan flora is pretty bang on for the first set of images:

 

This is quite a variable species. Most of our specimens are ± glandular-pubescent in the raceme and on the upper part of the stem (var. glandulosa Farw.) The lower leaves and leaves on basal offshoots sometimes are short-petioled. Rarely plants have alternate racemes, as in V. scutellata. Submersed plants (especially in flowing water) frequently have very limp and rather elongate aquatic leaves; these are opposite so such plants ought not be confused with a Potamogeton, which they might otherwise resemble.

 



#12 gerald

gerald
  • Global Moderator
  • Wake Forest, North Carolina

Posted 07 September 2017 - 12:40 PM

Great!  sorry I sent you off in the wrong direction with Lindernia and Gratiola.


Gerald Pottern
-----------------------
Hangin' on the Neuse
"Taxonomy is the diaper used to organize the mess of evolution into discrete packages" - M.Sandel





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