136 replies to this topic

[Cricket]

hmmm ... maybe a female okee tattoo on your belly would get him dancing?

That is a fantastic idea! Lol

[Cricket]

Hunk spent the morning trying to convince me that he won't live much longer without a female. He said I may never see navy again.
He's starting to win me over. Lol

[Michael Wolfe]

Hes just resting up. Waiting for his next lady visitor.

[Cricket]

Hes just resting up. Waiting for his next lady visitor.

Good cause turns out he was lying. While maybe it's not his normal navy black midnighty color he sure was looking pretty to me

Here's another quick video of the tiny fry in the original tank.

https://youtu.be/iVLQ5nFq9Y0
(I cleaned the algae from the filter since lol)

And here's a short video of the older fry in the tank with hunk. This one looks and behaves like a pygmy at this point

https://youtu.be/6t21KWMljd8

I find my self wishing I had another tank all the time. Lol. I would like to have 1 for each male. One sorority and a breeding tank. For each male . . . lol sheesh.

[Cricket]

If you had 1 20 and 2 10's how would do it? Like have a grow out tank or community and breeding etc etc or what?
(You general )

Edited by Cricket, 01 November 2017 - 02:42 PM.

[Cricket]

Well I spotted two more fry in the 20 gallon which now houses all the fishes from Jonah's aquarium aside from hunk and a new girl unnamed still.
https://youtu.be/bsUpd5M-giI
Those two are hanging out in the 3.5 gallon bowl for a couple weeks? Maybe? Then I was gonna pull them.

[Cricket]

Why do you suppose they are hanging out up top? That's what the two in the other tank did as well. Is it a newly hatched thing ya think?

[Cricket]

After watching some of Erica's videos. (Is she long gone now) I think okees may be a little more high spirited than Gilbertis. Hers seem to tolerate the presence of other males much more than mine do. She appears to have two very dark fishes in the presence of another moderately colored fish tolerating each other much more than mine do. I have read about the banded ones that they are much less tolerant as well. Does this jive with what any of you have noticed? Perhaps there are some bigger differences between the two than originally thought? Or do you think it's specific to my group?

[Doug_Dame]

I'm lazy. If a fish breeds and fry grow up in a planted tank without doing anything more, that's my version of fish-keeping happiness. If they do it in a mixed species community tank, that is absolutely fish-keeping heaven.

 

This is worth bearing in mind. (Arguably.) For a population (of anything) in the wild, if on average for every pair of breeding adults, two of the offspring survive to themselves become breeding adults, then the population should be stable in the long-term. If you have a breeding pair and 10 offspring survive to themselves start breeding, you have a potential population explosion on your hands. Which isn't necessarily bad, of course, but unless you want to end up with 40 fish tanks all filled up with the same kind of fish, you have to do something to manage the situation.

 

Here's a parable (from memory) from "Zen and the Art of FishRoom Maintenance", a book which used to have some buzz, back in the day: 

"Near where I come from in Florida there is a very small town called Windsor, which is most famous for hosting an annual Zucchini Festival. Windsor is a very friendly place, but in the summertime visitors and residents alike have to be vigorous and diligent about locking their vehicles every time they come & go. If they slip up, upon their return to their vehicle they will likely discover that some unknown benefactor has gifted them with two ... or three ... or four ... or five ... DOZEN monster zucchini. It is possible to love something, but also to have too much of it."  

[itsme]

If you end up with more offspring than you want to deal with, you can send them to me.  I'm sure others would be interested as well.  Fry go to the surface for a variety of reasons.  One is dispersal.  It's a way to catch a ride on currents and be carried to new habitat.  Another is hunting.  Algae, protozoans and invertebrates of various kinds can congregate at the surface for the benefit of light and warmth.  Fry go there in pursuit of those prey items.  So, I think this is normal behavior.  Your fry look healthy and vigorous!  Very cool!  Thanks for the great videos.  We need to figure out how to get you some subscribers on YouTube.  I'm only starting to dabble, so don't know the strategies.  I can't figure out why some fish vids get 100's of thousands and others only get 100's of views.

[gerald]

Erica's colony (gilberti) was kept in a 55-gal as I recall, so they had 4 ft of length to flee from attack (or at least 2-ft if the dominant aggressor was sitting dead-center).  Her original stock came from my colony (raised in 2, 5, and 10 gal tanks) and like you, i've found males to be highly territorial.  In tanks smaller than 10 gal, it's rare for more than one male to stay in dark color, IME.  Except that old males (2 yrs+) tend to stay dark even after they don't have much fight (or breeding interest) left in them, so you may have a young male and his aged father both in color.

[Cricket]

Thank you all for the pity responses
It did begin to seem as if I was just conversing with myself didn't it? 😂😂

I'm lazy. If a fish breeds and fry grow up in a planted tank without doing anything more, that's my version of fish-keeping happiness. If they do it in a mixed species community tank, that is absolutely fish-keeping heaven.
 
This is worth bearing in mind. (Arguably.) For a population (of anything) in the wild, if on average for every pair of breeding adults, two of the offspring survive to themselves become breeding adults, then the population should be stable in the long-term. If you have a breeding pair and 10 offspring survive to themselves start breeding, you have a potential population explosion on your hands. Which isn't necessarily bad, of course, but unless you want to end up with 40 fish tanks all filled up with the same kind of fish, you have to do something to manage the situation.
 
Here's a parable (from memory) from "Zen and the Art of FishRoom Maintenance", a book which used to have some buzz, back in the day: 
"Near where I come from in Florida there is a very small town called Windsor, which is most famous for hosting an annual Zucchini Festival. Windsor is a very friendly place, but in the summertime visitors and residents alike have to be vigorous and diligent about locking their vehicles every time they come & go. If they slip up, upon their return to their vehicle they will likely discover that some unknown benefactor has gifted them with two ... or three ... or four ... or five ... DOZEN monster zucchini. It is possible to love something, but also to have too much of it."  

Lol. This is too true! It is how I felt after my mollies had their first couple clutches (still called clutch when they are live bearers?) Also after my first baby platies. I'm still totally regretting my mated pair of angels who are at this very moment laying another clutch of eggs!!! I will have to assume that I will eventually not want to foster the new additions to my native tanks as well lol. But for now I do

If you end up with more offspring than you want to deal with, you can send them to me.  I'm sure others would be interested as well.  Fry go to the surface for a variety of reasons.  One is dispersal.  It's a way to catch a ride on currents and be carried to new habitat.  Another is hunting.  Algae, protozoans and invertebrates of various kinds can congregate at the surface for the benefit of light and warmth.  Fry go there in pursuit of those prey items.  So, I think this is normal behavior.  Your fry look healthy and vigorous!  Very cool!  Thanks for the great videos.  We need to figure out how to get you some subscribers on YouTube.  I'm only starting to dabble, so don't know the strategies.  I can't figure out why some fish vids get 100's of thousands and others only get 100's of views.

you are a wealth of information. I wish I knew all this junk off the top of my head lol. Thank you I am loving seeing them swim about. I do have a couple friends who want fry but I will certainly keep in mind that I can return them 😂 as far as my you tube channel it really began for various reasons but never intended to get watched by strangers. In fact I recently went thru and checked the privacy on many of the videos as I had boys baseball games, church services, school performances and family memories up there to share with my family that don't live nearby. Pretty sure I got most of it. Then I uploaded fish videos for purposes of sharing here and in other forums where you can't upload videos. I suppose it wouldn't hurt to become a famous you tuber tho 😂 My kids would be so proud lol

Erica's colony (gilberti) was kept in a 55-gal as I recall, so they had 4 ft of length to flee from attack (or at least 2-ft if the dominant aggressor was sitting dead-center).  Her original stock came from my colony (raised in 2, 5, and 10 gal tanks) and like you, i've found males to be highly territorial.  In tanks smaller than 10 gal, it's rare for more than one male to stay in dark color, IME.  Except that old males (2 yrs+) tend to stay dark even after they don't have much fight (or breeding interest) left in them, so you may have a young male and his aged father both in color.

I'm so jealous Gerald. Your stock is fabulous! I was watching a video I hadn't seen before. Let me find it.
https://youtu.be/FTllAobn8zA
Omg their colors are TO DIE FOR!!! I would love to have fish that gorgeous! But In the video you see how close they are to each other wearing their colors. I suppose it's due to the battle for dominance already being done. I'm glad to know mine are the only pr¡*#s around.

In one 10 I seem to have some varied ages of fry still little. I don't see any larger but I think they are likely there. In the other ten I have seen maybe 3 various aged juveniles. Hopefully they survive hunk and his girl in the 20 I see a couple little guys at top but not sure how they will do.
Here's a video of the orignal tank with some various sized itty bitty fry. Eating banana worms

https://youtu.be/bKtMseGomlo

Also just for fun I got a new eba for my 120g. He is the most adorable little guy ever. Just doing 1. Done with boy girl issues in community tanks lol.
Btw. Named him Magnes (short for magnesium) My Opaline gourami is in there too. I love her. She is frightened off at the end by a big bad mean clown pleco 😂😂
https://youtu.be/D6i_o_-laOE

Edited by Cricket, 09 November 2017 - 06:22 PM.

[Cricket]

Here's a video of one tiny juvenile. Longest 6 min of your life lol

https://youtu.be/01RtcwPBFv0

[Chasmodes]

Cool 'lil feller!  How is the juvy doing today?  Can you still find him?

[Cricket]

Cool 'lil feller!  How is the juvy doing today?  Can you still find him?

Cool 'lil feller!  How is the juvy doing today?  Can you still find him?

I can never find them when I'm looking lol. There is one hanging out at the top of that tank but I don't think it's the same fella. The one hanging out at the top of the 20 is getting really big now! (Respectively lol)

Here's the little guy from the video.

What do you think? Same fella?

[Chasmodes]

I have no clue, but he's cute!  Those pics of hunk are fantastic, what a beautiful fish.  I love your videos too.  Thanks for sharing them!

[Cricket]

It's been a while since I've reported and since I've asked a million questions lol. So I figured I'd do an update. One thing happening is I made my "YouTube channel" a channel lol. Which is to say I actually address watchers in a sense I made an intro lmao. So y'all should subscribe to it 😀 I have no idea how many subscribers I have tho. So anyway. I'm a dork. I'm pretty sure I've mentioned that. Charlie and diamond are still in my original 10. I have no idea about fry in that tank. It's too overgrown. Hunk and nameless fish girl are still in the 2nd 10. There's a juvie hanging out on the top and another that chills in the tiny plants on bottom. That's all I know for sure. (As above) In the 20 remains everyone else. Grey is a much less bossy boss than the other two guys who still obsess over each other more than girls or food. Those fish are seldom seen unless I poke around. Aside from the juve that hangs at the top of that one. I used a bowl for mating but it was too hard to work out so I removed the adults and the filter and just grow plants in it. It never gets a speck of algae. I saw fry 2 or 3 weeks back but I don't think they're alive still. It doesn't get regular water changes and light really warms the water so I think the temp fluctuates a lot. Plus when I do add or change water I think It's enough to cause a rapid water parameter change. I treat it as if there are fry just in case. But I doubt it has any left. It's mostly a blackworm tank with a couple snails and plants.

It turns out I don't like having my fish in the kitchen/dining room area :/ and I'd prefer not to have quite so many tanks as well. Mostly because my mated angelfish problem was a pretty tank/fish explosion. So I took my pair to the lfs where he is selling them as a mated pair. That frees up my 46 gallon bow front which I am selling now. I took most of their first clutch to sell as well. I have about 25 left. When they are all old enough I'll sell them too and that will free up a 29 gallon. I have a 29 gallon qt tank. I'm gonna split this up and post now so I don't lose it all Lol.

[gerald]

So what other fish do you plan to KEEP besides the Okee's?  Are you still interested in Apisto's?

 

IME, a nearly constant food supply is key to raising batches of Elassoma fry in mixed-age tanks.  Older siblings often intimidate and attack smaller ones unless you keep them so stuffed with food that they lose interest in acting territorial.  Adults don't seem to bother their young fry much; it's the juveniles that are just a little bigger that i've seen attacking smaller fry.

[Cricket]

So what other fish do you plan to KEEP besides the Okee's?  Are you still interested in Apisto's?
 
IME, a nearly constant food supply is key to raising batches of Elassoma fry in mixed-age tanks.  Older siblings often intimidate and attack smaller ones unless you keep them so stuffed with food that they lose interest in acting territorial.  Adults don't seem to bother their young fry much; it's the juveniles that are just a little bigger that i've seen attacking smaller fry.

I can't believe I forgot to finish that post. I'm such a knucklehead. Hey Gerald, if I collected a pygmy sunfish in Clearwater Florida would you be able to say what type it was based on that information alone? I'll get right back to this thread/ line of thought in just a minute

Edited by Cricket, 01 December 2017 - 08:44 PM.

[gerald]

Looking at my Peterson Field Guide (the old version, 1991) E. okefenokee and evergladei both occur around Tampa-Clearwater area.  Males should be easy to tell apart, but females and juvies can be tricky.