20 replies to this topic

[zapins]

I'm planning to drive 8 hours down to Florida and collect some Elassoma Evergladei around Tallahassee tomorrow and Saturday with a 3 day fishing permit. Can they be caught in winter? Do they swim to deeper water and become unreachable or will they be relatively easy and plentiful to catch around the plants near the shore?

 

 

[Doug_Dame]

You'll find a lot more Elassoma in the summer, in all sorts of shallow places (like roadside ditches) because they breed in the spring, but I'm not aware of most Florida (native) fishes moving much in response to cooler winter temperatures ... it's not that cold. 

 

You are aware, I hope, that Tallahassee is 28 minutes away by road from the finest looking Elassoma in the world, and they're not evergladei ?

[zapins]

I hope that the finest Elassoma are at wacissa springs?

 

If not there, where should I go look? I will only get one shot at this and probably will never go back to Florida.

[JasonL]

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FWIW I routinely catch E. zonatum up here in KY throughout the winter in pretty much the same spots I find them in the summer. These were caught in January last year in less than a foot of water in weeds right by the shoreline that was iced over just a few days prior. They were surprisingly lively and active despite water temps in the low 40s at most.

Doubt you have any issues finding the Florida Elassoma species in winter.

[zapins]

Thanks for the info!

 

I'm surprised they are found that far north in KY. I had thought they were only in the south.

[Doug_Dame]

Wacissa indeed. 

 

Work the bottom plants in the "boat ramp canal" especially.

 

Have fun.

[zapins]

Well. I made it out there, didn't get eaten by an alligator, and found pygmies at Wacissa. They seem to congregate under larger leafy floating plants only. Not at all in the hydrilla stem plants deeper down. They liked the cover that floating plants provided, so I brought some floaters back with me. There were small pockets of them all throughout the weeds on the far right side of the boat ramp near the cordoned off swimming pool area.

 

What actually worked best was to rent a canoe from up the road and paddle it around and park in the weeds on the right side. Then dip the net into the water at a 45 degree angle and then go directly up towards the surface. I was able to catch quite a few like that. And now have a very good size breeding population.

 

I am curious to know what the general hardness of the water is at Wacissa springs. I'd imagine quite hard but who knows. I'll see if my GH test still works.

 

High def pics to follow once I get them in their tanks.

[Fleendar the Magnificent]

Wish I had time to play in the water(carefully) and do some canal and ocean fishing while in Florida this week. I play in the river here a LOT, but never have to worry or watch for gators. I leave tomorrow afternoon and will be arriving in Orlando by 5 PM.

[zapins]

Here are a few crazy low res cell phone pics. When the fish settle in to their new home and color up I'll take more pics with my good camera.
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[Fleendar the Magnificent]

Beautiful fish, and you just caught these?

[zapins]

Yep. Just netted them out with a little 8 inch net and a couple hours of trial and error.

When I first caught them the males were black and more shiney. They have lost the black color due to being jostled around in a bucket for a day. I expect they'll improve their color when they get used to their new home.

Here's what they looked like when I first netted them. They are under an inch long as adults. Maybe closer to half an inch.

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Edited by zapins, 17 February 2019 - 06:51 PM.

[zapins]

Hard to photograph the one fish. But what are these fish?

Blue fin killies and a tetra of some kind?

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[Fleendar the Magnificent]

Those are awesome pygmies! Wish we had them here in Ohio. I have green sunfish in my tank along with 4 darter species, a stonecat madtom, shiners and bluntnose minnows. The greens get big, and hungry.... Sometimes I worry about my darters, but I keep tiny shiner and bluntnose minnow fry in the tank at all times to keep the sunfish and stonecat madtom occupied.

 

Hard to say what the top ones are, but the bottom photos look like some kind of sunfish. Look like baby greens.

 

Chris M.

[Doug_Dame]

Blue Fin Killie - absolutely. The zigzag stripe nails the ID.

 

(But if you caught a lot of similar fish w/o looking at them too hard, you could very well also have some N. harperi, aka redeye chub, an under-seen and under-appreciated fish. Plus Darwin designed baby bass to look about the same at 1" long, aka sneaky eating machines. And there's coastal shiners, weed shiners are possible, and downstream x miles there's Pt metallicus although I don't recall having seen any at the springhead itself.)

 

other - baby sunfish of some type, bluegill most likely, just based on what's most common

[Michael Wolfe]

Doug doesn't need my confirmation as he knows the fish down there as well as anyone.  But he is on point with all the IDs.

 

And you are correct that your Elassoma will settle in and color up with no problem.  I also agree with your technique.  In my experience, in areas where the water is a little deeper the Elassoma will be "up under" floating plans (maybe all the time, or maybe just when humans approach).  I have caught many in the Okefenokee just like you did (dip under, pull up, sort the fish out of the floating plants).  In an aquarium, the males will stake out a territory under a plant (they seem to like the larger leaves of anubias) or some other structure.  They will dance in  front of their hiding spot to attract females in to breed. 

[gerald]

The Wacissa pygmies in your photos are, of course, E. gilberti, as evidenced by the blue band around the edge of the dorsal, caudal, and anal fins (and by range, to distingush it from okefenokee in central and eastern FL).  Do E. evergladei and E. zonatum occur at Wacissa too?  Doug?

[zapins]

I didn't see any other pygmy species at Wacissa when I was there, but maybe I was in the wrong spot?
 
Interesting number data. I fished out 19 males, 30 females. I wonder if the lack of even numbers is because the males get eaten more often than females due to being more colorful? Or perhaps their sex ratios are skewed that way naturally.

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Edited by zapins, 18 February 2019 - 06:23 PM.

[Doug_Dame]

Gerald, only gilberti at this location as far as I know, and that's all the SKS Fla Collecting Guide shows. 

 

The Snellson et al (2009) paper describing E. gilberti focuses on separating out gilberti from okefenokee and really doesn't discuss locations of evergladei.

 

Zonatum seem to be kinda randomly scattered around Florida in my experience, never know where they'll show up. (But then again, I've never gone looking for them specifically, so it's probably mostly my ignorance.)

[Fleendar the Magnificent]

I'm in central Florida now. Wish I had the time and resources to take a few of these home myself. It's 80°F here now. Back home in Ohio it's 30 with snow and ice. 4 more days of nice weather until it's back into the saddle again with winter weather.

[Manuel809]

Hi, awesome Pygmy sunfish. I was wondering if you would be willing to share the location(s) where to find Pygmy sunfish. Im planning a trip and want to know as many locations as possible. Thanks in advanced