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Perch feeding and more

Started by Guest_johnpritzlaff_* , May 14 2007 02:45 PM

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62 replies to this topic

#41 Guest_fundulus_*

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Posted 26 June 2007 - 05:07 PM

What time of day did you hear the creepy sound? I have something near my house that makes a fantastically spine-tingling shreik from the swamp in the middle of the night sometimes. I think it may be the pileated woodpeckers being disturbed by something, but it sure get's the heart racing when it happens!

Nightjars?

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#42 Guest_4WheelVFR_*

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Posted 26 June 2007 - 08:03 PM

Nightjars?

A shriek could be a Bobcat maybe?

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#43 Guest_keepnatives_*

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Posted 26 June 2007 - 09:32 PM

Years ago my wife and I went canoe camping in central NY and one nigt heard these scream like shrieks during the night outside our tent so loud we could barely get to sleep. In the morning we found a Great Blue Heron which quicly took off and lots of bird tracks around our tent.

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#44 Guest_bullhead_*

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Posted 26 June 2007 - 10:31 PM

OK, great blue herons are local, as are sandhill cranes.

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#45 Guest_Irate Mormon_*

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Posted 26 June 2007 - 10:39 PM

Is it okay to feed my rock bass ants? They eat them like popcorn! I discovered this today. I started putting ants in and they just munched 'em down in seconds. It's a much easier food for them to get to than the feeders (I got more today though), because the ants are helpless in the water, whereas the feeders can swim. I'm sure it is okay, I'm just slightly worried that the ants might be alive in their stomachs

Oh man, this is just RIPE for the pickin's! Somebody STOP me!!

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#46 Guest_johnpritzlaff_*

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Posted 27 June 2007 - 04:06 AM

Thank you for debunking my mom's caves idea. It's too bad it's not true though, that would be interesting.

As far as the ants go, I'm just worried about the pincers. Irate Mormon, I'm assuming by implication that there is nothing wrong with feeding my fish ants, since if there was then I would think you would tell me right away in your post, so as not to let me continue to feed my fish something that could harm them. But maybe I just have no idea what you're talking about.

The noises: I heard them in the middle of the night, about 3 in the morning. I'm in a suburban area, leaning towards urban though. I think it was either some weird birds or a raccoon, I don't think a coyote or fox (let alone a bobcat) would be in my backyard, but maybe not.

When I asked about which fish to add, I wasn't saying that I wanted ideas or anything. I meant that I wanted to know advice for which fish would work with what I have. I have plenty of ideas for what fish to get. Thank you for the advice about the bioload. It is sometimes easy to think of bioload in terms of quantity -- how many fish -- rather than quality -- the size. A few small fish may affect the biology less than one big one.

The crayfish is still alive! I can't believe it, well I can because I've had this happen many times before, like most fish owners. But I was really thinking he was gone, since I searched the whole pond. He was either up the service pipe, or in the clay pot. I searched the pot, but only with a net, it's possible he avoided it since the pot is curved. I'm pretty sure the remnants I saw were shrimp, not his exoskeleton. It was cool, how I found him. Or rather, how he revealed himself. He just came out of nowhere and grabbed a shrimp, and dragged it back into his hiding spot in the pot, all in about a second.

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#47 Guest_Irate Mormon_*

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Posted 27 June 2007 - 06:24 PM

As far as the ants go, I'm just worried about the pincers. Irate Mormon, I'm assuming by implication that there is nothing wrong with feeding my fish ants, since if there was then I would think you would tell me right away in your post, so as not to let me continue to feed my fish something that could harm them. But maybe I just have no idea what you're talking about.

Your assumption is correct! Otherwise I would immediately tell you that your fish were going to die. Which they would, IF I predicted it.

In all seriousness, I don't see any problem with feeding ants to your fish. They might even like actual popcorn upon occasion!

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#48 Guest_johnpritzlaff_*

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Posted 29 June 2007 - 12:18 AM

Your assumption is correct! Otherwise I would immediately tell you that your fish were going to die. Which they would, IF I predicted it.

In all seriousness, I don't see any problem with feeding ants to your fish. They might even like actual popcorn upon occasion!

I could maybe see feeding my fish stove-made popcorn without butter or oil, if I was looking for trouble, but I'm gonna assume you weren't being serious when you said that. I've never heard of popcorn as a fish food. I've also never been able to tell when you're being sarcastic. Call me a naive teenager.

Anyways, I've been feeding the perch and rock bass feeders (the rock bass eat a little more than the perch), the rock bass ants, and the perch shrimp. I'm going to get them some nightcrawlers and maybe 17-year cicadas soon, as a nice treat and to make their diet more diverse. I wonder if they'll eat the worms from my hand. I bet they will.

I started down the long road towards the big fish tank tonight by telling my mom I might want a 95 gallon for my birthday. I think if it happened it would have to be a co-present between both my mom and my dad (even though they're divorced). I could see this thing costing upwards of 600 bucks, for the tank, stand, and filter. I don't need a heater and I don't need to buy any ornaments. I think I can get away with decorating the tank with natural scenery from Lake Geneva (big rocks, gravel, pebbles, driftwood, and maybe plants).

Would it be appropriate to put these things in the tank? I mean, I'll clean them, but even if stuff still makes it into the tank, it's not a big deal right, since the fish came from that environment? Or am I way off? All I know is if I did do this then I would always wash nets and everything else that came into contact with the water in the big tank before using it on my other tanks.

So, is this all okay: I get the 95 gallon tank (48" long x 24" wide x 17" high) and a 48" long by 24" wide stand and decorate the tank with natural things, and get a nice biowheel power filter, and a good air pump, and put these animals in after the cycling --

1 Albino Channel Cat
2 Rock Bass
4 Yellow Perch
1 Crappie
1 Crayfish
and maybe
1 Pickerel
1 Largemouth Bass

...Is this okay?

As in, are the fish compatible (bass/pickerel eating perch?), are there problems with natural decoration, will the fish have enough room, etc.? I need to know this stuff soon.

EDIT: Also, I messed up in an earlier post -- my pond is 3 inches over 2 feet deep, not 4 feet deep. The 2 feet are underground.

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#49 Guest_drewish_*

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Posted 29 June 2007 - 11:40 AM

You will end up with two fish in the end... a fat channel cat and a fat largemouth bass.

The others will be eaten, or die from stress/stop eating, or poor water quality.

You will have to pick and choose. Don't bother with the LMB and pickerel with your setup and other fish.

Keep your channel cat outside and scrap the rock bass, and you may have an "OK" tank. The yellow perch will reach 12"+ so that will take up most of the room in your 95G, not leaving much room for an 18" crappie.

BUT if you plan on upgrading the 95 to a 240g in the next year, you will be fine.

P.S. DIY stand will save you tons of money. and yes, sand and gravel/rocks from the lake are fine to use.

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#50 Guest_Zephead4747_*

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Posted 29 June 2007 - 03:47 PM

IMO try to find a tank longer then 48"

Drop the channal cat and lmb and pickerel.
then you'll be ok

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#51 Guest_johnpritzlaff_*

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Posted 29 June 2007 - 08:03 PM

Okay. I will forget about the largemouth, and when the channel gets too big he'll become a pond item, possibly a food item. Will the channel really be able to eat/stress my perch and sunfish, since they'll get big themselves?

Someone on here told me a pickerel would be a good addition to my pond. Wouldn't it then be okay for the 95? He'll have more than enough room to turn around, and I don't know if I'm buying into this idea that there won't be enough room for all those fish. I mean, I trust you guys, but isn't it true that it will take a long time for the perch and rock bass and crappie to get anywhere near that big, and by that time I would probably be able to buy an even bigger tank.

It really is too bad you can't return the fish to the wild once you're done with them. Oh well.

If I get a tank that's a little longer, won't I be okay with a pickerel, some perch, and some rock bass, maybe a crappie and a few other small sunfish?

There is another factor, and that is that I could easily put them in the 233 gallon pond in the summer. I don't know if that matters but I figured I should mention it.

By the way, I did realize that my dad and I could make a stand ourselves, but I forgot to put that in the post. That's definitely the route we'll go, because otherwise the stand will double the cost.

Thanks for the advice.

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#52 Guest_drewish_*

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Posted 29 June 2007 - 08:32 PM

Okay. I will forget about the largemouth, and when the channel gets too big he'll become a pond item, possibly a food item. Will the channel really be able to eat/stress my perch and sunfish, since they'll get big themselves?

Channel cats are big fish and require a lot of room. Crappie and rock bass are somewhat timid fish. You definitely want to make sure they are too big to fit in the cat's mouth.

Someone on here told me a pickerel would be a good addition to my pond. Wouldn't it then be okay for the 95? He'll have more than enough room to turn around, and I don't know if I'm buying into this idea that there won't be enough room for all those fish. I mean, I trust you guys, but isn't it true that it will take a long time for the perch and rock bass and crappie to get anywhere near that big, and by that time I would probably be able to buy an even bigger tank.

A pickerel with other fish is hit or miss. They aren't active, slow to eat, and will require live food initially until you can train them off. I kept a single yellow perch (10") with a single warmouth (3") in a 75g, and I thought it was too small. You are adding 6" to the depth which may make a difference. The yellow perch was a little over a year old and still growing. Another 6 months and it would have been over 12". Will you be ready to upgrade in a year's time?

If I get a tank that's a little longer, won't I be okay with a pickerel, some perch, and some rock bass, maybe a crappie and a few other small sunfish?

I'd say the minimum you should have is a 180g (6'x2'x2') with that many fish.

By the way, I did realize that my dad and I could make a stand ourselves, but I forgot to put that in the post. That's definitely the route we'll go, because otherwise the stand will double the cost.

Most definitely the cheapest way to go.

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#53 Guest_johnpritzlaff_*

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Posted 29 June 2007 - 10:49 PM

Channel cats are big fish and require a lot of room. Crappie and rock bass are somewhat timid fish. You definitely want to make sure they are too big to fit in the cat's mouth.
A pickerel with other fish is hit or miss. They aren't active, slow to eat, and will require live food initially until you can train them off. I kept a single yellow perch (10") with a single warmouth (3") in a 75g, and I thought it was too small. You are adding 6" to the depth which may make a difference. The yellow perch was a little over a year old and still growing. Another 6 months and it would have been over 12". Will you be ready to upgrade in a year's time?

I'd say the minimum you should have is a 180g (6'x2'x2') with that many fish.

Most definitely the cheapest way to go.

I definitely didn't realize that the perch will get that big that fast. I made an assumption that was way off, and I'm going to be responsible and live with it.

I can keep up with the pickerel's live fish habit. By the time I would get one, I'll have enough tanks set up that I'll be able to have dozens and dozens of feeders available at any one time, because I'll have at least a 10 gallon devoted specifically for the purpose. Hey, have you ever heard of someone breeding guppies or some other liverbearers just for feeding purposes? Is it practical?

Will I be able to find a pickerel on the buy/sell section of this forum?

A 180 gallon "wide" tank (72" x 24" x 25") is listed at around $530 on glasscages.com. Is there any way I could find one cheaper? I could maybe see getting one of these for Christmas (last year my mom got me an xbox 360, which cost $500 when it was all said and done), but I would really like to know if there's any way to get it a lot cheaper. Plus, it's not as hard to suggest that I want a video game system than a humongous tank. My dad, and maybe my mom, might see this as a waste of money. Suggestions? I don't think I'm gonna be seeing one at a rummage sale any time soon. Also, I want to know: how in the heck do you ship one of these, and how do you get one of them into your house? My friend and I carried a 55 gallon, and that was pretty heavy itself. Would a third person be able to help or would they just get in the way?

Also, I want to know once and for all, is it length or depth or width that matters most?

Clarification: when you say I need a 180 for that many fish, you're using my second list, right ("a pickerel, some perch, and some rock bass, maybe a crappie and a few other small sunfish"?), or are you talking about my first list? I don't think I really want a largemouth, too much hassle. But I would like a pickerel. Are you counting my channel? Because I don't necessarily have to have him in the tank. He could be in the pond for a long time.

EDIT: one more thing... When I go fishing this coming week, what's better for me to keep for the pond -- a crappie or a bluegill? When I originally said I wanted a crappie, I was just throwing the name out there, because it was something I caught. But now my research seems to indicate that bluegills are considerably smaller than crappies, so are bluegills better? I've heard that crappies are more mean than bluegills, is this true? Also, I still need to know if my fish can stay in my pond over winter if I need them to. My pond is 2 feet 3 inches deep, and almost all of it is underground. (Someone told me before that I could keep my fish in there over winter but he thought my pond was 4 feet deep due to a mistake I made.)

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#54 Guest_drewish_*

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Posted 29 June 2007 - 11:00 PM

Also, I want to know once and for all, is it length or depth or width that matters most?

Clarification: when you say I need a 180 for that many fish, you're using my second list, right ("a pickerel, some perch, and some rock bass, maybe a crappie and a few other small sunfish"?), or are you talking about my first list? I don't think I really want a largemouth, too much hassle. But I would like a pickerel. Are you counting my channel? Because I don't necessarily have to have him in the tank. He could be in the pond for a long time.

All of them actually. You want to make sure a tank is deep enough for a fish to be able to turn around. Length comes into consideration when you have long fish (such as gar) or quantity (they need room to establish their territory). The height comes into factor when choosing species. I just took a bunch of darters from a tank that I had darters, shiners, and topminnows. I can't add more fish other than bottom fish because the middle and top of the tank are already populated enough.

Yes, using your second list. Most people can not house a largemouth correctly and don't realize it until too late. I'd keep the channel cat in the pond. If you get a pickerel, make sure you can move it out quickly once you see how the sunfish treat it.

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#55 Guest_johnpritzlaff_*

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Posted 29 June 2007 - 11:29 PM

All of them actually. You want to make sure a tank is deep enough for a fish to be able to turn around. Length comes into consideration when you have long fish (such as gar) or quantity (they need room to establish their territory). The height comes into factor when choosing species. I just took a bunch of darters from a tank that I had darters, shiners, and topminnows. I can't add more fish other than bottom fish because the middle and top of the tank are already populated enough.

Yes, using your second list. Most people can not house a largemouth correctly and don't realize it until too late. I'd keep the channel cat in the pond. If you get a pickerel, make sure you can move it out quickly once you see how the sunfish treat it.

Could the pickerel live with my channel in the pond? There is a good chance that the pickerel will be okay with the sunnies though, right? Will the pickerel be able to eat my perch?

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#56 Guest_drewish_*

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 09:56 AM

Could the pickerel live with my channel in the pond?

Depending how big they are, the channel can probably eat it.

There is a good chance that the pickerel will be okay with the sunnies though, right?

Hit or miss... I've successfully kept mine with a warmouth for 6 months or so. I've heard of people keeping theirs with sunfish as well.

Will the pickerel be able to eat my perch?

Doubtful.

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#57 Guest_Zephead4747_*

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 06:24 PM

grass/redfins and perch seem to get about 12" as a typical max (can be an inch or two longer if good conditions). Of course neither of your fish may get that big it's a good idea to plan for it. I strongly suggest you forget about the catfish... it's just too big. I originally wanted some big sunfish in my 40 gallon... but now I wish I would have gone with a lot of smaller fish with a lot of personality. Albeit the green sunfish+ pumpkinseed combo has been interesting.

Don't worry about pickerel eating the sunnies unless they are really small. Their body shape can be a little bit of a prevention to keep a pickerel from eating them. find some sunnies a good size in contrast to the pickerel when you get them. The real problem would be the sunnies beating up the pickerel...

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#58 Guest_johnpritzlaff_*

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 08:46 PM

Okay guys, I'm liking what I'm hearing. So what size pickerel should I get? My perch are about 3", 3", and 6", and my rock bass are both around 5".

I'll keep the channel in the pond, maybe with some koi, or by himself (or maybe with other catfish). I still need to know if my pond can run through the winter with fish in it. It's 2 feet 3 inches deep. The 2 feet are underground.

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#59 Guest_Zephead4747_*

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 10:22 AM

I'm just wondering why are you so set on a channal cat? They get too large. I don't mean to be rude or anything but as has been previously stated he'll end up eating your other fish. I would take this advice and suggest you get something like a bullhead of some sort if anything at all, if you really want a catfish you can keep with your other fish

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#60 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 01 July 2007 - 06:16 PM

Hey, have you ever heard of someone breeding guppies or some other liverbearers just for feeding purposes? Is it practical?

Yes, I have done it in the past... but it takes more than a ten gallon tank... I had a 35 gallon trash can in the back yard with my guppies outside, well most of the year... and this worked well for my pickerel... in fact I will put in a plug for guppies as feeders... they are small... have small skulls... and are a freshwater fish... another good choice is grass shrimp... harder to grow, but again, natural and no large body parts... avoid goldfish.

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