Advice For A Complete Beginner

Hello, all. I just joined this forum when I was looking on information on native fish to keep in a giant aquarium I'll soon be purchasing (at least a couple hundred gallons). I thought it'd be awesome to have a very large aquarium of native fish with a great looking habitat set up and everything. Problem is, I know ZERO about native fishkeeping and really need some help. I hope that this topic could help me and then future absolute novices in the future.

I basically need to know what fish to keep. I'll tell you my requirements and what I'm looking for, and I'd like advice on what to get and where to get them. Let's pretend price isn't a concern, even though it is (if it's a REALLY expensive fish - over $100 - then I won't get it). I.e. I have tropical fish, but I would never buy discus fish, no matter how pretty they are.

So, my requirements are as follows:

Every fish should be at least four inches long (full-grown).
No fish can be more than, say, 2 and a half feet long.
I need fish that will be relatively easy to feed. I know that there are a lot of native pisciverous fish out there, and if I absolutely cannot have native fish without feeding them feeder fish, then I have to focus on feeder fish as the main food and deal with it. I would prefer if I could mix some live food with some (or all, ideally) flake food or pellet food, etc. I don't want some picky fish that will only eat live fish. But again, if I must, I'll consider it.
I really would like less ornery fish. I know that a 2-foot walleye will eat an easy-to-catch, 4-inch minnow. What I mean by less ornery is docile. Catfish, for example, are very docile, but highly predatory (in general). Sun and channel catfish are good examples, but are probably a liiiiiittle too big for my aquarium.
I'd like a balanced tank with top, bottom and middle swimmers, as well as fish that will help me in my cleaning efforts. So, detrivores, scavengers and algae eaters are a giant plus.

I know it's a different monster to keep a native fish tank, but I'd like to try. If it's entirely too much of a hassle, I can just go with large, tropical fish. I already know a lot about them and which ones I'd keep if that is the route I choose to go down. I'd really like a native fish aquarium, though.

Any other tips you can think of, along with vegetation ideas (I'd assume tougher, thicker plants for large fish would be a good idea?) would be wonderful. Feel free to point me to posts helping other newbs, if there are any. Thanks in advance, everyone!

well I would do a tank full of the lless agressive sunfish like banded,blackbanded,bluespot,dollar,orangespot and maybe even a few longears for topwater I would go for large killies mummichogs get a good size and will also eat feeder fish or flake
madtoms would be a good bottom fish maybe a snailbullhead but that would be pushing it
alage eaters-mummichogs should keep green alage in check and if not get a load of plants that will clear it up in days
as far as plants hornwort java moss and elodea would be your best choses
filters-1 magnium 350 canister filter+ an aquaclear 150
get a small heater to keep temps for droping in the winter


if you have any more questions feel free to pm me

Rob

Topminnows for the top.
Minnows and shiners for the middle.
Darters for the bottom.
An enneacanthus or two for variety.
They vary between 2" and 9"
You can put in any plants you like.
Those types of fish will generally eat frozen food and/or flake.

I have a 75 gallon community tank with - golden topminnow, lined topminnow, starhead topminnow, northern studfish
- mountain redbelly dace, rainbow shiners, warpaint shiners, and a few others
- rainbow darter, redline darter, orangethroat darter, snubnose darter, gilt darter, bronze darter
- bluespot sunfish

I have java fern, java moss, anubias, cryts, and a couple other plants in there.
If somebody comes in my house and sees my setup they have a hard time believing that its not a tropical tank.

I would not recommend sunfish unless you are a cichlid lover. If you are then disregard what I just wrote.

Vincenzo,

Welcome aboard!

A 200 gallon tank is a great way to start but I'd have the same problem.......so many gallons, now what!

Most natives require the same as tropicals (aside form the no heater rule of thumb). Most will accept dry food quickly while others will respond to frozen foods at first. In some cases live might be required at first and gentle weaning to frozen then to dry can be accomplished with patience. Personally I feed certain fish live blackworms from either convenience or necessity (young darters and pygmy "sunfish").

As far as fish selection......It would be a good idea to tell us what part of the country you come from (no need to be specific) so we can get a list together of fishes from your region. You might also live in a area where regional outings might help you collect the fishes you want.

Since you're going with a 200g (or so) tank you could get a yellow or brown bullhead, and some various sunfishes. I've got a Yellow Bullhead, Green sunfish, warmouth, longear sunfish, shadow bass, albino tiger oscar, Thorichthys ellioti (kinda like a firemouth) and an albino adonis plecostomus. I've got a 265, and these fish have lots of personal space. I do go through a lot of food though.
Another cool option would be topminnows for the top, a large school (say 25-30) small-medium shiners, and some larger darters and small sunfish (orangespot, bluespot, etc). That would be a cool combo for a large tank IMO.
Keep us posted and remember the pics when you're set up.

I live in Minnesota (it's big enough to call itsefl its own region). I don't think that netting them would be a good idea (parasites), but maybe I'm wrong? Any help anyone? Therefore, it's not a big deal if I don't get Minnesotan fish. Besides, from what I know, most of the fish we have are large and pisciverous. Like walleyes, muskies and various pikes.

I've enjoyed looking up all the fish listed so far, and I'm compiling a list, but it's not complete and I'm not getting enough bigger fish on these lists. Are they too predatory or something? I.e. will your typical, 8-inch sunfish eat a 3-inch darter or something?

I don't think that netting them would be a good idea (parasites), but maybe I'm wrong?

Netting your own fishes is where the fun is. What's the point of BUYING natives - it's just like another trip to PetsMart.

You'll find that Minnesota has a lot more fishes than you imagine. We have some NANFA guys up there - you need to get out in the streams with them a time or two.

I don't think that netting them would be a good idea (parasites), but maybe I'm wrong?

Most people here net their own or use hook and line for game fish. Trading is also an option as well as the excellent list of licensed vendors. Parasites should not be of major concern but quarantine is a good idea. To be honest, I've had more problems from pet store tropical disease than anything I've found in the wild. It's a good idea to inspect your wild fish carefully before you take them home and also watch it carefully while in QT.

Besides, from what I know, most of the fish we have are large and pisciverous. Like walleyes, muskies and various pikes.

You have tons of neat fish in your local creeks I'll bet. To start, I'd recommend buying this book. It's probably the most useful single book anyone interested in native fishes can buy. It's also a darn good price. I also think you should get in contact with local members as they can show you the ropes to local useful books and websites. They should also be able to help you navigate the laws of your state.

I've enjoyed looking up all the fish listed so far, and I'm compiling a list, but it's not complete and I'm not getting enough bigger fish on these lists.

I'm hesitant to recommend a particular fish until I can see the big picture.

Are they too predatory or something? I.e. will your typical, 8-inch sunfish eat a 3-inch darter or something?

In general yes, most larger fish will eagerly consume smaller tankmates. It really all depends on the size of fish and the species. Sunfish are quite variable in aggression and size. Some have large mouths while others don't. It's pretty difficult to sum up a 200 gallon stocking plan without a "must have" fish to then base the tank around. I do keep sunfish and darters together but I'm careful about which sunfish I mix with which darters. Really no different than compatibility issues you would see with saltwater or FW tropical tanks.

In a nutshell.....I'd advise you to go to a library and check out a book that covers national or local native fish to do a little homework (or buy one). I'll bet one of the fish there gets your attention that you can then build on. I should warn you that once you start down the large predator line of fish, many of the most interesting fishes (darters, Cyprinids and killifish) will probably be nixed from your stocking plan. It might be a good idea while investigating to think about predatory tank vs. community tank.

I definitely want a community tank, and not a predatory tank. With that said, I still want large fish. If that means large herbivores, then so be it. What about the common carp? Is that not where we get koi? How big do they get? I've read upwards of four feet! That'd be great, if they don't start eating the smaller fish. They're still docile in the aquarium, right? Like koi? And where can I find good links/groups for here in Minnesota? I need to know some laws/good places to catch what I want to catch/just learn from some experts in person. Posting here is probably just way too slow to gather a lot of information. I've been doing some research, and let me tell you, the dirth of information on native species - when compared to tropical fish - is depressingly frustrating.

Would buying fish from local fisheries be safer for laws/catching/parasites? I saw one with some cool local fish (walleyes and various pikes), but uh, they're definitely big-time predators and would require at least some live fish, for the most part. I'd like to know of some local (within a hundred miles) fisheries, as well as some good places to pick up fish. I was in the St. Croix and saw tons - thousands - of very easy to net fish that I've determined are probably smelt. Are these good fish for the aquarium? They seem like they'd be ok from what I read, but none - NONE - of that information I read was aquarium-based. They seem too small - six-inchish - to eat any fish that are substantial in size, and their mouths are small. Their food requirements wouldn't be that bad, I'd guess, as they are slim and sleek fish.

I've seen tons of sunfish all over the place in various lakes and rivers that'd be easy to catch. What are the best sunfish - the bigger the better - for a community aquarium?

I'll post more questions as I gather more information/get more responses/come up with new questions. Thanks to all that have responded already. Feel free to point me to good sites so I can do my own research and you don't have to do too much hand-holding

Did he say carp?

"Warning, Dr. Smith, warning! The native fishes list has been breached!"

Did he say carp?

... and koi!!!!???

I'd go with Nile Perch, but that's just me...

Another cool option would be topminnows for the top, a large school (say 25-30) small-medium shiners, and some larger darters and small sunfish (orangespot, bluespot, etc). That would be a cool combo for a large tank IMO.
Keep us posted and remember the pics when you're set up.

I second this idea.

"Warning, Dr. Smith, warning! The native fishes list has been breached!"

I know they are an imported species, but, uh, they're everywhere now, so we have to get over it and accept them.

Nope.

For what you are looking for, species that come to mind are :

creek chubsucker, Erimyzon oblongus
northern hogsucker, Hypentelium nigricans
central stoneroller, Campostoma anomalum
and maybe a smaller Moxostoma spp
and similar species

That's all I can think of that would be easier to obtain. All of the other bigger species will eat smaller fish as far as I know.

Carp should not be transported alive from any body of water.

I would stay away from carp too, just an unwanted fish with more cons than pros.

Most larger fish are predatory (at least here in WI). The only larger herbivorous fish I can think of aren't native (African Cichlids).

I'd definitely push the panfish and killifish. That's the route I'm looking to go. The all panfish tank would also be a neat tank.

Carp should not be transported alive from any body of water.

Why not? Those were good listings, btw. Did you research Minnesota fish? I kept finding that they can be found here while looking them up. Thanks! They seem to be all bottomfeeders

What are all these "cons" to carp? What would be the difference between them and koi, as pets?

And what about the smelt I asked about? They're cute, they get a perfect size for a good, schooling fish (7-9 inches) and they'd be super easy to catch. I just need to know if they'd be good aquarium fair.

I have 2 stonerollers, and I had 2 Northern hognose suckers. I like them, they're not as colorful as the darters that I have, but they're interesting.

I'd go with Nile Perch, but that's just me...

Do you want Nile Perch this big?