Advice For A Complete Beginner
#1 Guest_vincenzo_*
Posted 05 July 2007 - 05:12 PM
I basically need to know what fish to keep. I'll tell you my requirements and what I'm looking for, and I'd like advice on what to get and where to get them. Let's pretend price isn't a concern, even though it is (if it's a REALLY expensive fish - over $100 - then I won't get it). I.e. I have tropical fish, but I would never buy discus fish, no matter how pretty they are.
So, my requirements are as follows:
Every fish should be at least four inches long (full-grown).
No fish can be more than, say, 2 and a half feet long.
I need fish that will be relatively easy to feed. I know that there are a lot of native pisciverous fish out there, and if I absolutely cannot have native fish without feeding them feeder fish, then I have to focus on feeder fish as the main food and deal with it. I would prefer if I could mix some live food with some (or all, ideally) flake food or pellet food, etc. I don't want some picky fish that will only eat live fish. But again, if I must, I'll consider it.
I really would like less ornery fish. I know that a 2-foot walleye will eat an easy-to-catch, 4-inch minnow. What I mean by less ornery is docile. Catfish, for example, are very docile, but highly predatory (in general). Sun and channel catfish are good examples, but are probably a liiiiiittle too big for my aquarium.
I'd like a balanced tank with top, bottom and middle swimmers, as well as fish that will help me in my cleaning efforts. So, detrivores, scavengers and algae eaters are a giant plus.
I know it's a different monster to keep a native fish tank, but I'd like to try. If it's entirely too much of a hassle, I can just go with large, tropical fish. I already know a lot about them and which ones I'd keep if that is the route I choose to go down. I'd really like a native fish aquarium, though.
Any other tips you can think of, along with vegetation ideas (I'd assume tougher, thicker plants for large fish would be a good idea?) would be wonderful. Feel free to point me to posts helping other newbs, if there are any. Thanks in advance, everyone!
#2 Guest_killier_*
Posted 05 July 2007 - 06:30 PM
madtoms would be a good bottom fish maybe a snailbullhead but that would be pushing it
alage eaters-mummichogs should keep green alage in check and if not get a load of plants that will clear it up in days
as far as plants hornwort java moss and elodea would be your best choses
filters-1 magnium 350 canister filter+ an aquaclear 150
get a small heater to keep temps for droping in the winter
if you have any more questions feel free to pm me
Rob
#3 Guest_arnoldi_*
Posted 05 July 2007 - 08:24 PM
Minnows and shiners for the middle.
Darters for the bottom.
An enneacanthus or two for variety.
They vary between 2" and 9"
You can put in any plants you like.
Those types of fish will generally eat frozen food and/or flake.
I have a 75 gallon community tank with - golden topminnow, lined topminnow, starhead topminnow, northern studfish
- mountain redbelly dace, rainbow shiners, warpaint shiners, and a few others
- rainbow darter, redline darter, orangethroat darter, snubnose darter, gilt darter, bronze darter
- bluespot sunfish
I have java fern, java moss, anubias, cryts, and a couple other plants in there.
If somebody comes in my house and sees my setup they have a hard time believing that its not a tropical tank.
I would not recommend sunfish unless you are a cichlid lover. If you are then disregard what I just wrote.
#4 Guest_teleost_*
Posted 05 July 2007 - 08:32 PM
Welcome aboard!
A 200 gallon tank is a great way to start but I'd have the same problem.......so many gallons, now what!
Most natives require the same as tropicals (aside form the no heater rule of thumb). Most will accept dry food quickly while others will respond to frozen foods at first. In some cases live might be required at first and gentle weaning to frozen then to dry can be accomplished with patience. Personally I feed certain fish live blackworms from either convenience or necessity (young darters and pygmy "sunfish").
As far as fish selection......It would be a good idea to tell us what part of the country you come from (no need to be specific) so we can get a list together of fishes from your region. You might also live in a area where regional outings might help you collect the fishes you want.
#5 Guest_4WheelVFR_*
Posted 05 July 2007 - 10:06 PM
Another cool option would be topminnows for the top, a large school (say 25-30) small-medium shiners, and some larger darters and small sunfish (orangespot, bluespot, etc). That would be a cool combo for a large tank IMO.
Keep us posted and remember the pics when you're set up.
#6 Guest_vincenzo_*
Posted 06 July 2007 - 02:01 AM
I've enjoyed looking up all the fish listed so far, and I'm compiling a list, but it's not complete and I'm not getting enough bigger fish on these lists. Are they too predatory or something? I.e. will your typical, 8-inch sunfish eat a 3-inch darter or something?
#7 Guest_Irate Mormon_*
Posted 06 July 2007 - 09:50 AM
I don't think that netting them would be a good idea (parasites), but maybe I'm wrong?
Netting your own fishes is where the fun is. What's the point of BUYING natives - it's just like another trip to PetsMart.
You'll find that Minnesota has a lot more fishes than you imagine. We have some NANFA guys up there - you need to get out in the streams with them a time or two.
#8 Guest_teleost_*
Posted 06 July 2007 - 10:23 AM
Most people here net their own or use hook and line for game fish. Trading is also an option as well as the excellent list of licensed vendors. Parasites should not be of major concern but quarantine is a good idea. To be honest, I've had more problems from pet store tropical disease than anything I've found in the wild. It's a good idea to inspect your wild fish carefully before you take them home and also watch it carefully while in QT.I don't think that netting them would be a good idea (parasites), but maybe I'm wrong?
Besides, from what I know, most of the fish we have are large and pisciverous. Like walleyes, muskies and various pikes.
You have tons of neat fish in your local creeks I'll bet. To start, I'd recommend buying this book. It's probably the most useful single book anyone interested in native fishes can buy. It's also a darn good price. I also think you should get in contact with local members as they can show you the ropes to local useful books and websites. They should also be able to help you navigate the laws of your state.
I'm hesitant to recommend a particular fish until I can see the big picture.I've enjoyed looking up all the fish listed so far, and I'm compiling a list, but it's not complete and I'm not getting enough bigger fish on these lists.
In general yes, most larger fish will eagerly consume smaller tankmates. It really all depends on the size of fish and the species. Sunfish are quite variable in aggression and size. Some have large mouths while others don't. It's pretty difficult to sum up a 200 gallon stocking plan without a "must have" fish to then base the tank around. I do keep sunfish and darters together but I'm careful about which sunfish I mix with which darters. Really no different than compatibility issues you would see with saltwater or FW tropical tanks.Are they too predatory or something? I.e. will your typical, 8-inch sunfish eat a 3-inch darter or something?
In a nutshell.....I'd advise you to go to a library and check out a book that covers national or local native fish to do a little homework (or buy one). I'll bet one of the fish there gets your attention that you can then build on. I should warn you that once you start down the large predator line of fish, many of the most interesting fishes (darters, Cyprinids and killifish) will probably be nixed from your stocking plan. It might be a good idea while investigating to think about predatory tank vs. community tank.
#9 Guest_vincenzo_*
Posted 16 July 2007 - 04:41 PM
Would buying fish from local fisheries be safer for laws/catching/parasites? I saw one with some cool local fish (walleyes and various pikes), but uh, they're definitely big-time predators and would require at least some live fish, for the most part. I'd like to know of some local (within a hundred miles) fisheries, as well as some good places to pick up fish. I was in the St. Croix and saw tons - thousands - of very easy to net fish that I've determined are probably smelt. Are these good fish for the aquarium? They seem like they'd be ok from what I read, but none - NONE - of that information I read was aquarium-based. They seem too small - six-inchish - to eat any fish that are substantial in size, and their mouths are small. Their food requirements wouldn't be that bad, I'd guess, as they are slim and sleek fish.
I've seen tons of sunfish all over the place in various lakes and rivers that'd be easy to catch. What are the best sunfish - the bigger the better - for a community aquarium?
I'll post more questions as I gather more information/get more responses/come up with new questions. Thanks to all that have responded already. Feel free to point me to good sites so I can do my own research and you don't have to do too much hand-holding
#10 Guest_Skipjack_*
Posted 16 July 2007 - 05:14 PM
#11 Guest_fundulus_*
Posted 16 July 2007 - 06:56 PM
#12 Guest_bullhead_*
Posted 16 July 2007 - 08:30 PM
... and koi!!!!???Did he say carp?
#13 Guest_Irate Mormon_*
Posted 16 July 2007 - 10:01 PM
#14 Guest_fuzzyletters_*
Posted 16 July 2007 - 11:18 PM
Another cool option would be topminnows for the top, a large school (say 25-30) small-medium shiners, and some larger darters and small sunfish (orangespot, bluespot, etc). That would be a cool combo for a large tank IMO.
Keep us posted and remember the pics when you're set up.
I second this idea.
#15 Guest_vincenzo_*
Posted 17 July 2007 - 09:26 AM
I know they are an imported species, but, uh, they're everywhere now, so we have to get over it and accept them."Warning, Dr. Smith, warning! The native fishes list has been breached!"
#16 Guest_fundulus_*
Posted 17 July 2007 - 09:34 AM
#17 Guest_drewish_*
Posted 17 July 2007 - 10:09 AM
creek chubsucker, Erimyzon oblongus
northern hogsucker, Hypentelium nigricans
central stoneroller, Campostoma anomalum
and maybe a smaller Moxostoma spp
and similar species
That's all I can think of that would be easier to obtain. All of the other bigger species will eat smaller fish as far as I know.
Carp should not be transported alive from any body of water.
#18 Guest_why_spyder_*
Posted 17 July 2007 - 04:34 PM
Most larger fish are predatory (at least here in WI). The only larger herbivorous fish I can think of aren't native (African Cichlids).
I'd definitely push the panfish and killifish. That's the route I'm looking to go. The all panfish tank would also be a neat tank.
#19 Guest_vincenzo_*
Posted 17 July 2007 - 06:32 PM
Why not? Those were good listings, btw. Did you research Minnesota fish? I kept finding that they can be found here while looking them up. Thanks! They seem to be all bottomfeedersCarp should not be transported alive from any body of water.
What are all these "cons" to carp? What would be the difference between them and koi, as pets?
And what about the smelt I asked about? They're cute, they get a perfect size for a good, schooling fish (7-9 inches) and they'd be super easy to catch. I just need to know if they'd be good aquarium fair.
#20 Guest_factnfiction101_*
Posted 17 July 2007 - 06:46 PM
Do you want Nile Perch this big?I'd go with Nile Perch, but that's just me...
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